Posted: Sep 9, 2010
|As already mentioned, figleafforum and Boyd Allen's web sites are good resources... another good one is Matthew Neal's web page http://thebiblicalnaturist.blogspot.com|
SunnyDay also recently had a "cat out of bag" situation with her in-laws, and the world didn't come to an end. My family also just recently went through a cat out of bag scenario as well, but it was far from smooth sailing. I had to quit my job at the church, and my parents refuse to listen to our Biblical references (proverbial Ostrich with head in the sand). At least my wife's parents finally agreed to read some materials I gave them, and get this, he is a preacher as well and agreed that technically we were not sinning in being naturists (though he says it's not for them, at least they listened to us and accept our choice for our familiy).
One thing is for sure... in a year's time when you look back on this, it won't seem anywhere near as bad as it may seem to you right now.
Posted: Dec 2, 2010
|The whole ordeal may have already happened already, but I figure I will throw my 2 cents in there anyway. There is a very relevant passage in the Bible that says "18 There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love." 1 John 4:18. I think this is a real eye-opening passage to christians when they finally understand it. It talks about how God's main method of operation isn't 'putting the dirty look on us to remind us he could throw us in hell if we continue sinning,' but that his main method of operation is loving on us, because he knows we are merely all like children who are lacking in knowledge who would most likely change our ways if our needs (all levels) started to get met properly and if we really knew the effects of our actions and how much God cares about us. But the part I want to bring up more importantly for your situation is that you are reacting to your parents out of fear. It is the reason you haven't told them for so long, because you don't want a negative reaction/punishment coming out of them.|
I don't know what your current status is on this issue, but if nothing has changed, perhaps try to tie up any loose ends that they could use as a power trip over you (like if you have any belongings at their house, or if they watch your kids [might be an idea to think about a new babysitter]), and consider praying and asking God to help you write out/formulate a well thought out explanation to them of your nudist lifestyles and that it's family friendly and etc. You might also want to take some time (perhaps a couple months) before telling them and just keep praying about it, so that they don't do something stupid like try calling child services on you or something. I personally think, that unless they are in a situation where they could really manipulate you because you need them in some way, or unless you are planning on moving a good distance away sometime soon, that it's probably better just to get it over with and tell them in a well planned manner. Why? Because they very well could find out eventually, and if it isn't planned for and expected, it could go a lot more poorly.
And with all this, obviously, you have to expect they may reject you. I got kicked out of a church and lost a job because I mentioned I was a nudist, and sometimes that is just part of the territory. If you don't necessarily need them in any big way, at least you have a chance for still being alright in the other areas of your life. Though there is small chance they may care about being around their granddaughters more than they care about you guys being clothing-optionalists, and so they may just say "Fine. As long as you treat our granddaughters alright." And of course, if you get really lucky, they would just say "Well why didn't you just tell us sooner. That's no big deal."
Regardless, good luck. And if you need any Scriptural references or arguments, I got like every one in my EBDN paper here: http://echoxofxinfinity.viviti.com/files/documents/EBDN.pdf
Posted: Dec 3, 2011
|I just read your text. I too engaged my church leadership in such a discussion some time ago. The consequence was I was asked to volunteer to step away from all of my leadership positions. They offered me professional psychological counseling and to pay for it. |
One argument I have trouble defending social nudity against is that it harms your witness. Proverbs 29:25 notwithstanding, the argument goes that if the person you are sharing the gospel with thinks, as the rest of the world does, that social nudity is a sin, and they know you are a nudist, how can you share the gospel with them?
My argument with that is "you can!" It makes no difference. The gospel is about accepting Jesus' gift of salvation and making Him lord..the boss of you. Telling someone that basic fact does not require anything from us but the telling. It is the Holy Spirit that does the saving, not us.
They argue that because I am a social nudist, that fact acts as a stumbling block to someone coming to know the Lord (Cor. 8:9-13 & much of chapter 9, esp v19 and v23). Therefore I should repent of mudism. We give up spiritual freedom for our weaker brothers and sisters and for the good of the gospel. I have to say, this is a hard argument to counter.
It has to be about how we are presenting the gospel. Is the gospel about living without sin? Or is it a gospel about freedom from sin? I would argue that the gospel gives freedom, including the bodily freedom of nudism. One would think that should make the gospel more attractive. But to those who want a religion that restricts and controls, such a gospel is not attractive.
When I accepted Christ, the load lifted off my shoulders was great and I enjoy the freedom it brought me. I kind of think this is an important part of the gospel.
However, Paul in this letter seems to contradict that. My belief is that God's word is right, so I must be wrong somehow. If we could find scripture to get past this issue, I think the freedom of nudism could actually help our witness.
Posted: Feb 25, 2012
|Hello Jymnos and fellow believers,|
It saddens me when ever I hear of an active believer being asked to "step down from church service" because of nudist beliefs. The ratioinal being that being a nudist and naked disqualifies that person. Their argument is faluty and hampers the function of church which is to share the gospel. As you correctly point out, salvation is the business of the Holy Spirit. The function of sharing the gospel has nothing to do with being or not being nude. In fact with scripture it can be shown that God Himself has no problem with being nude.
Every one seems to understand that Adam and Eve were created in the nude and expected to continue to be nude while in the garden. It was their sin of eating the forbidden fruit that got them put out of Eden, not their being nude. In fact, if you will examine the conversation between God and Adam, God never challanges their nudity. He only asked "Who told you that you were naked?"
So, why did God provide clothing to them? Was it that he now saw their nudity as sin? That would mean that God made a mistake; indeed He had Himself sinned because of the way He created Adam and Eve nude in the first place. But, we also know that God can not sin! So why the clothing? God knew that the life for Adam and Eve was going to be hard and they would need extra clothing for protection.
Some would argue that was in the OT, and not like today. But, the scriputers say that God is imutiable. He will not change His position. If He created mankind in the nude then it was because that is the way He wanted us to be...Nude! He can not sin nor does He make mistakes that He has to then change His mind.
But, surely God would object to a naked person preaching, teaching His word!
Check out Isaiah 20:2&3 where God did just that with Isaiah and his followers. He preached the word of God for three years in the Nude! Was God promoting sin? No, I think we have already covered the fact that God can not sin no will He change His mind!
The reality is you church leadership and body is caught in a social/cultural trap which has nothing to do with who can preach the word of God. In fact much of the world lives in a nude or semi-nude state and are doing just fine with that concept.
I have two suggestions for you. Find another church within which to minister. Or stay with your church and continue to minister with your participation and opinions. The loss of you ministry will be their loss and it could even be argued that they are supporting the deviles work by silencing a(your) voice in ministry.
Posted: Feb 9, 2013
|It IS sad that our churches are caught in that un-biblical trap. Society has, in reality, followed the church's leadership on this. Even churches that claim to believe the whole counsel of God can't see past the cultural stigma of nudism. Gnosticism and Asceticism are still very much alive and well in the 21st century North American church. Some heresies refuse to die. They are just too popular.|
In a recent email exchange with Matthew Neal, I mentioned that I am struggling with "coming out" as a nudist to my church family. I attend a PCA church, which is among the most conservative of the Presbyterian denominations. Mr. Neal challenged me to seek the Holy Spirit's guidance about "coming out" as a nudist. Among my problems are that I am new to the church, going through marital challenges (my wife moved out on me), and I am a recovering sexaholic. My pastor knows about these problems, because I met with him just this week. I am not quite sure I am ready to add fuel to the flames by coming out of my nudist closet. One problem at a time.
Brother and Sisters...I need wisdom.
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