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Absolute Naturists When Did Nudist Clubs Die?
| When did nudist clubs begin their demise? Why has membership waned? What was the cause? Can clubs be reversed to recapture the former wholesomeness of nudity as portayed by the ASA Days group posts? Your thoughts please. | |
| First, when youth sports and activities became a year round thing and games and meets were held on weekends. Second, when people worked so many hours to keep up that many didn't know their own neighbors, never mind reaching out to a group maybe three or four hours from home. Third, upscale all inclusive clothing optional resorts sprung up. Can it be restored to its former glory? Yes. But it going to take a concerted effort and capital to upgrade facilities and services, with creative ways to make it financially attractive to those with children, and those who can only spend a maximum of 10-14 days at a club per year. Wholesomeness restored? I believe it can be. I find both nudist and textile people looking for a safe fun place to get away from the stresses of everyday life. While it may not be the exact same way as it was years ago, I think it can be done. My two cents to get the ball rolling. | |
| I will refrain from this but we know why. | |
| although I don't think they have died, you could say the current economic crisis, which is not so current, has something to do with it... especially if you don't have one nearby and have to put $75 in your gas tank just to drive to one... we just started going and luckily have 4 clubs within two hours drive so we will continue to try to keep them alive... :) | |
| While I agree with some of the comments on this post I think that there is more to it. My wife and I belong to a number of clubs/originations that are non-nudist and most of them have been having the same problem for a number of years. Some of these are local and others are national and worldwide. I believe it is more to do with people not wanting to belong or work for clubs/originations anymore. I had experience with this when I tried to find someone to take over as publication editor for an international club I belong to. It took me 5 years to find someone to become my replacement. All the ones we belong to have seen a small to a very large drop in membership over the last 10 years and for some it is getting to be a problem. One thing is younger people do not seem to want to belong and work for the clubs/originations and without new members they die as the old membership dies for real. I prefer not to mention the names of these for privacy reasons but many are national clubs/originations that many of you would recognize. On the nudist side we belonged to a local non-landed club that has given up as people did not support and show up for events that were planed. | |
| I can tell you what caused it up here. The price for a single membership at Solair almost doubled this year from last and they got rid of an under-40 membership that was more affordable for the younger crowd. I will still be going, but I'll be paying the day fee instead. | |
| If we really believed in the desirability of "absolute naturism," we would be thrilled to live in a world in which such an anachronism as a "nudist club" would disappear. I'm not saying we're there (we're not even close.) I just wish we could get to a point where the "nudist clubs" could just vanish due to irrelevance. In other words, a world where "absolute naturism" was a viable choice. | |
| As in every evolution there comes a time when something is no longer relevent and or needed.This is true of nudist clubs. Nude beaches are far more accessible , technology and travel are easier and most of the clubs I think , really just want to be left alone to quietly pass away , the effort to compete in the market place of ideas is too over whelming to many... | |
| Nobody has blamed it on Obama or the 60's yet? :) :) A lot of families are squeezed, both in time and money. I know we look pretty hard at where each dollar goes and if there's a free alternative we're there instead. Paying to go to a club would be a luxury compared to just stripping off in the back yard for free, although meeting other families there and doing things with a larger group would be a bonus. It depends on the age range of kids in the family too, but weekends tend to be "taken" by other activities like sports or scouting, and on top of that doing things outside is not as "entertaining" to a lot of kids: they want electronics involved. I look at the bigger FKK campgrounds in Europe where it's much more casual and the facilities are more developed (water park, anyone?), plenty of people of all ages visiting: that sounds a lot more attractive to me. Of course, with the average US citizen lucky to get even two weeks of paid vacation, we're less likely to have a desire for those multi-week camp-outs at the nudist resort. No critical mass of families...supply and demand. | |
| Can it be that "Absolute Naturists" have died off? If I believe in something very much...enough to fight for it, enough to put it at the top of my priorities, enough to ensure I always have enough money for dues, day fees and weekend trips...then I will continue to do what is important to me. I too have fallen on economic hard times...but I still make time, plenty of time to visit my local club regularly, pay my annual dues, pay my naturist organization dues and vacation at my club or other clubs in order to see them through these hard economic times. When did Nudist Clubs die?: When people stopped caring and wanting MORE than they are willing to pay to contribute to all that...MORE. I can take my own "fun" to a club. I don't need the club to provide the "fun" for me. If the club can afford the "fun" with my continued patronage...all the better. If the club can't and needs more money to do so and I'm able...I WILL do what I can to contribute. When they tried to entice more people and became clothing optional clubs...now there's more clothed people at nudist clubs than there are nude people. But that's the discussion of another thread. Can they be recaptured? I don't know if we have that committed of a following anymore. Those Absolute Naturists are dying off! ;) | |
| I would have to agree with everyone on their opinions and views. We live about 20-30 minute drive from 2 resorts, had to give up a trailer at one due to work scheduling, cost of maintaining two residences. I've been working on my backyard for the past 3-5 years to make it more nudist-friendly and try to maintain contact with friends who live on and off the resorts. | |
| I don't think nudist clubs have died, but their growth has been stagnant for many years. AANR has about 40,000 members, which is about the same as it was when I first joined AANR in 1994. The situation has not changed much, regardless of the economic situation. I think we need more nudist clubs that are closer to the urban areas where most people live. I find it hard to justify a long drive to some out-of-the-way place, in terms of the ecological impact as well as the time and expense. While I agree that membership in social clubs is declining, people are still members of other types of clubs such as health clubs. Perhaps nudist clubs need to market themselves as more of a business that provides facilities for nudists. | |
| Viewing the wonderful historical pictures in the ASA Days Group here on NCH provided me with the epiphany for this topic. There is one consistent theme throughout all the pictures, people are nude. Here is my epiphany (please bear with me): In the days of ASA, there were groups of people who enjoyed simple nudity in social settings. They played simple outdoor games, had potlucks and BBQ's, enjoyed swimming and sunbathing, and preferred the good company of other nudists. They did not have debates or rules about tattoos and piercings, they did not have discussions about shaving their pubic hair, they did not distinguish between the acceptability of children at club functions and the need to have adult only environments, they did not constantly complain about driving distances or membership fees, they did not include sex or swinging in their desire to enjoy their social nudity, they did not expect to be entertained nor was there an expectancy of upscale services, they did not wear erotic clothing nor have discussions about underwear verses outerwear, they did not feel a need to be exhibitionists on dance floors, they laughed and enjoyed each others company and appreciated the freedom and escape from their textile mandated lives, and best of all, they did not wear clothes at nudist clubs because they went to their nudist clubs to be nude. They joined nudist clubs, not resorts, for the sake of enjoying healthy nudity without mitigation and that was the direct value these clubs brought and provided for them. It was a simple time. It was a utopian nudist environment. For whatever reasons, these clubs started to allow membership of persons who desired this utopian environment, claiming to be nudists, but that did not understand, appreciate or completely accept the simple concept and principles of social nudity. This is when these club's unwitted demise began to occur. The paradigm shift of the nudist mindset from having to wear clothes to wanting to wear clothes occurred and thrived. This is when, in my opinion, nudist clubs died. Here is my reasoning. As the textile norms gained greater momentum at nudist clubs, the simple outdoor games fell by the wayside, the potlucks and BBQ's were replaced by restaurant type dining with bars, swimming and sunbathing gravitated to hot tubs and coconut oil tanning, and the preference for good company moved to exclusionary circles of cliques, heated debates and bias rules about tattoos and body or genital piercings commenced, shaving pubic hair became a focus and style, intolerance and strict guidelines were established for acceptance and inclusion of children, adult only environments became more of a norm, persons began to seek locations and venues that were more amenable to their acceptable driving distances and costs for entry or membership fees, clubs began allowing or turning an eye from sex or swinging from groups openly seeking such entertainment in their desire to enjoy their social nudity, an expectation of club entertainment became the norm with calendars of events determining attendance, the demand for more upscale services with resort like atmospheres was quickly replacing the simplicity of nudist clubs, wearing erotic clothing became a norm and many times a competition, discussions about the appropriateness of underwear as outerwear ensued, dance floors became hotbeds for sexually charged exhibition, public drunkenness, voyeurism and hidden cameras replaced the laughter and enjoyment each others company, the separation, freedom and escape from textile living became minimal, and worst of all, nudists began wearing clothes at nudist clubs with the expectation and demand for allowance regardless of the premise of nudist clubs being place to be nude. Grass root oriented nudist clubs were now being forced to compete with corporate based clothing optional resorts. The enjoyment of simple unmitigated healthy nudity and social interaction was no longer the primary focus of value for viability for continued existence. What we are witnessing today in decreased membership and club closings is the direct result of what we have done to ourselves as nudists and we have no one to blame but ourselves. Can it be changed or reversed, perhaps, but only with consistent reorientation, acceptance, and enforcement of complete nudity at nudist venues. Will that occur, I doubt it. However I am willing to give it a try. | |
| As only a partial rebuttal I do think that because of the desire for entertainment, the coat has then gone up. Putting simple enjoyment of nudity out of the reach or at least more difficult to obtain. I for one and my wife don't have the extra cash at this time to afford the expenditure. So we choose not to go. We enjoy the company of others and want to participate with friends in good clean wholesome family nude recreation. The clothing thing, including the underwear outerwear, is at best, annoying. We just want to be able to be naked in a safe environment and socialize. Enough said! | |
Mahalo nui to SUNBUNNY for the nod to the nudist history group … and for “stealing” most of the points I was going to make!
At risk of rehashing posts from the Absolute Naturists » Why Join a Nudist Club? topic, an external force perpetually in conflict with club participation is values. Not to be confused with the dollars-to-service value but rather the way society has been transformed over the last several decades. Families in the “Happy Days” used to eat together, watch TV together, recreate and vacation together. Parents would scarcely consider leaving the children home alone; this included week-end nudists. To-day has paradoxes that would boggle the Andersons and the Cleavers. Households have more than one car on average; kids have better mobility through availability and permissiveness. There are more diversions to occupy idle time yet less rest periods in which to enjoy such entertainment. Media comes to us in evermore modes. With an average of three-to-four available TV channels, people weren’t parked in front of the boob tube as to-day; moreover, each room in the house were not so furnished. Speaking of boobs — and let’s be honest — to see bare ones meant hiding a National Geographic somewhere, heading to a joint on the seamier side of town … or joining a wholesome, family-oriented sun club. The postulate is: Men want to try the nudist park for the skin; wives want to stay for the serenity.
These are admittedly simplified assessments so as to not turn this into a lengthy thesis; nevertheless, the reports of nudist clubs’ death are greatly exaggerated. Social nudism has certainly gone through many challenges over the years. Clubs and their owners — as any business will attest — need to make necessary paradigm shifts or go the way of the “Acme Buggy-Whip Company, Ltd.” A classic example is the demise of Mystic Oaks near Elsinore, California. Owner Flo Nilson blamed the membership decline on “lazy people who want to be waited on,” but acknowledged that people had changed but the club didn’t. To-day, it is but a memory. | |
| Andy, thank you. About what I wanted to say, but far more eloquent. | |
| Here's some food for thought: http://www.amazon.co.uk/FKK-Reiseführer-International-Naturisme-2009/dp/3930376636 I have an older version of this guidebook, but the 2009 one listed above contains 800 "naturist beaches, resorts, centres and clubs." Most of them are in Europe. Obviously we're doing something wrong here in the USA if our clubs are stagnant. | |
| Nowhere in this thread does it differentiate amongst the types of clubs. For example, some clubs are set up as co-ops, some as "communities", some as nudist KOA's, some as swinger venues, etc. It occurs to me that most of these responses are referring to the KOA style camp and the bulk of the responses point to those "commercial" operations dying, which I agree with and mostly for the reasons mentioned, same as the commercial campgrounds we used to go to on vacation. As long as a group of nudists has enough money and wants to have a place to call their own I don't think the co-ops are dying and as long as people want to, ahem, spice up their love life I'm positive the swinger places aren't going away. | |
| I agree that other clubs are suffering the same fate as nudist clubs, but some are doing well, such as book clubs, gun clubs, motorcycle clubs, car clubs and cycling clubs. What do these clubs offer that make them successful? Local interaction with people you know, interaction with other groups from other areas, coordinated events to participate in and an exchange of knowledge with other members that betters yourself. They also actively recruit new members. For example, I joined a motorcycle club at one time. Being new to motorcycles I could ask questions and socialize with experienced riders, we went for pre planned rides to various destinations as a group. We met up with other clubs for rallies, I know about this club because one of the members found out that I ride and asked me to go with them. These concepts are no different for nudist groups. A successful nudist club I have seen, and am trying to spend more time with, follows the same pattern; they hold weekly events such as poker night, water aerobics, volleyball, camping, river rafting, etc., people can socialize with other nudists and ask questions or share experiences, this group occassionally gets together with groups from other areas and I found out about them because someone had the guts to talk to me about it. The key is preplanned activities which turn into social events. "Hey we are putting together a nude camping trip for next month, who wants to go?" As far as resorts go, I like Disneyland and am booked for a cruise. These resorts appeal to me because there is a lot to do. I'm not a sit by the pool resort goer. I feel like life is passing me by, but if you have a lot to do I'll pay to do it. Nude "resorts" I feel must do the same. How about a nude gym? I would join that. Nude karate dojo? Nude minigolf or lazer tag? Nude pumpkin patch-like amusement park? Look what is popular in the clothed world and make a nude version. I would take my business away from clothed versions in favor of nude versions. Maybe if someone starts up something special and unique it could become a destination for nudists, like Disneyland. Burning-man started as a small group event and now attracts thousands because everyone found out about it and wants to be a part of it because it is exciting and different. | |
| Rollercoaster, I agree resorts need to offer more. Can you imagine the opportunity to enjoy Disneyland in the nude? Obviously, it'd be very difficult to ever re-create a facility such as Disneyland for the benefit of nudists but to be successful there must be opportunities for nudists to be as active or inactive as they choose. In today's society there is just so much available for entertainment the majority of young, and older adults too, simply aren't satisfied with primitive campgrounds and such for more than a few hours at a time. Yes, they will enjoy a day at the beach, for example, but even there they want to stay connected via their electronic devices - cellphones, iPods, etc. I, unfortunately, was not even aware of ASA or any other nudist opportunities until a couple of years ago, hardly knowing anything at all about nudism, except as said by others "an urban legend", but it did seem to be much more widespread and accepted than it is today. Hopefully, the existence of the internet and other electronic media can be used to help spread the joys and benefits of nudism to get others engaged in living clothes-free or at least to accept the right of nudists to do so. Jim | |
| Resorts started to go down hill, when they became RESORTS, and no longer nudist club/camps. Most landed nudist clubs were pretty much the same, and then in Florida, where you had a lot of clubs pretty much fighting for the same members, one owner decided to offer more, be more upscale. Then other clubs had to compete, to keep alive, begin offering more. It spread. Now you have all these aspiring resorts gasping for air. Younger people prefer the simplicity of a beach or natural nude use area, and not the artificial and often hypocritical places that are resorts. I think non-landed clubs will be around a lot longer than resorts will. | |
| The nudists from days of lore got older, settled down, and forgot what it's like to be young. They are turning resorts into nudist retirement homes. People dont want to hang out with their (naked) grandparents it seems. With no one to replace them, as they die off they are taking nudism with it. | |
| Another contributing issue, is the Great American Witch Hunt. When the whole Adam Walsh and Polly Klass crimes hit, nudist parents decided to stop taking their kids to resorts. It was noticeable. It broke the chain so to speak, fearful of a perv under every rock, they didn't trust ANYONE seeing their kids nude. And be honest, more than a few pervs have been found at nudist resorts, including one serial killer (Cary Stayner). So a lot of nudist kids didn't grow up at resorts staring in the early 90's, and never came back to them as adults. | |
| My personal perspective parallels a lot of what sunnybunny said in her 6/19/11 post. In my family nudist days, the nudist resort was without a doubt the best place for my daughter to be a nudist. Being able to just "set her loose" and letting her run around the resort nude, without having to be concerned about where she was or who was around her, was just awesome. A lot of her social skills and acceptance of other people came out of that era; because other nudists being so accepting of her, introducing her to their kids and including her in their activities. Hence my preference for the nudist resort back then. But for me personally, my main issue with the nudist resort was...boredom. Every now and then someone would organize a game of volleyball for grown-ups, but activities were mostly organized for kids. As a result I found myself mostly sitting by the pool drinking beer. Which is just boring to me. My wife's issues with resort nudism were of a different nature. "Nudist etiquette" would come up; which she had issues with. Body posture was her biggest gripe; because she found it hypocritical to talk of body acceptance and then be concerned about "leg angles" when sitting or lying. Physical contact restrictions also irked her. It wasn't that she wanted an "unrestricted" approach to nudism; but having to check her leg positioning while sitting/lying or how affectionate she was being towards me just seemed very "anti-freedom" to her. That's why she preferred home-nudism or among nudist friends, where being comfortably sprawled-out on the couch or sitting on my lap wasn't "frowned upon." Now that I'm single again, resort nudism doesn't make much sense. I don't want to have to deal with the red tape or the stigma of the "single male." Which is why I am now a beach nudist. With a divorce rate of now 50+%; and a younger crowd that thinks a rigid nudist etiquette is stupid, as well as nudism being a "retirement activity", the resort nudist crowd is aging as well as dismantling. Being a great place for kids is great but not enough. I'm not sure I have any solutions; Generation Yers show little/no inclination towards resort nudism that I can tell. Maybe the next generation... | |
| I have a quick comment on the subject. I have never been to a nudist or clothing optional resort. The closest resort to my location is over 90 minutes away. My wife and daughter are not nudists, and I work afternoons and 3 out of 4 weekends, so any visit would be day trips. I would like to visit the reosrt but they only offer sitting around the pool. I am not the "sun whorshipper" type, I would prefer to hike, bike, golf, or the like. The day fees are very high, that while I can afford, I dont think there is a value there. If there were something "more to do" at the location, I would not hesitate to join and visit more. | |
| Clubs and resorts seem to appeal to most but there are those that don't like or able to partake in that naturist enviroment; too many rules, too stark, too much concrete ... not their kinda naturism. Other reasons are location, cost and entrance policies. I don't know that clubs will die off completely. I suspect and fear the too many others will close because the current residents will die off and others will find other things to do and ways to live. My wife and I have done our part to replace us within the naturist communty by exposing our daughter's, our grandkids and many of our daughter's friends to naturism. They are partaking on their own at home and occasionally at someone's pool but have not ventured into the club or resort scene yet but they want to very much. I think with the younger naturists, they are currently satisfied with doing things on their own, at friends homes, at a beach or in the woods ... etc., but I do think they will tire of that and want more social interaction and visit a club or resort later in their lives ... so I don't see Nudist Clubs dying but I do see too many more ... closing. | |
| Well, according to polls, the number of nudists/naturists is increasing. The number of nudist resorts is reducing. Non-landed clubs seem to be maintaining an even keel. As long as resorts insist that Gen-Tech can't use their cell phone to text, post photos on FB, Instagram, Twitter, etc, they are telling Gen-Tech we don't want you. | |
| ...and RabbitnBunny just hit on another important point. Gen Yers and up have to be constantly plugged-in. I can barely get my kid to turn off her cell at the movies. I hate to be the bearer of bad news...but there are not enough of us nudist Gen Xers to replace the Boomers. And unless some cultural shift happens in the next 10-20 years, Gen Yers are unlikely to revive the flame of nudism. It's just not looking good... | |
| I would like to draw the analogy between casinos and nudist resorts. How many casinos can you build? How many nudist resorts can you build? There is a saturation point. Only so many can be built and only the strong survive. The nudist movemnet was founded in 1931. It will never die. It ebbs and flows but it is here to stay and I wouldn't worry about it. Naturalism is what you make of it. If all the clubs closed I'd still be a nudist. The economic times have something to do with the current state of affairs and many of the younger gen-Yers that are not nudists now will become nudist as they mature. | |
| Tommy, I think you've missed the point, it's not about nudism or NATURISM surviving, but rather resorts will. Nudism and naturism will go on very nicely without any form of organized structure. | |
| I have no idea when "they died" although the way things go I do not think that is the case. Clubs may not be the popular choice at the moment but as with anything the popular choice is always changing. Perhaps a few public safety scares on clothing optional beaches will have nudists running back to a safer environment that clubs provide. Maybe an evolution of the clubs will bring people back. |
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