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Absolute Naturists Who should nudist fear most?
| Who is it exactly that nudists should fear most in moving towards nude living acceptance and social nudity acceptance? Is it the textile population or nudists themselves? Who is the real stumbling block in nudist lifestyle proliferation? Maybe it is really us (nudists) we should fear in the demise of social nudity. What do you think? | |
| To a degree...I'd have to say..."us." When you have certain..."nudists" or "recreational nudists" denouncing the opinions and philosophies of others, when you have these same "nudists" making statements about there not being a need for children to be involved, when you have these same "nudists" pressuring resorts to ban children and... I am included in this...when you have "nudists" that aren't as upfront as they should be to family and friends about their nudist lifestyle. I do NOT what to turn this into a topic of "why" we should or shouldn't be "open" about our nudism...that is NOT the intent. I just think our fear of secrecy about our nudism is alsol something we should fear about "us." For some of us...this is a way of life...something we live each day and most everyday in some way. We are not "just" nude sleepers, nude swimmers, nude hot tubbers... many of us go about our daily lives living as much as possible in the nude. I think "recreational" nudists are okay, some of them may even convert to full time nudist lifestyles or at least head that way. Others...participate in a less involved fashion and may sleep naked, do occasional skinny dippin and even go naked all the time in there hot tub but in most cases will not be nude in and around their homes when it's possible to do. I think we've seen the differences in the type of lifestyle that some, even here on A N Group, live as nudists. More later! ;) | |
| I certainly think we view our lifestyle as something many can commit to full-time, but whether or not they do is less of an issue for me. The most important factor of "being" a nudist is having a willingness to discuss it openly, demonstrate it if asked to do so, and to regard it as something that MAY be practiced openly with all family members IF and WHEN we can. In the past my wife and I have discussed whether or not it is something others should be compelled to endure, which to me sounds like comparing it to some sort of torture, and that is not my point of view; though I do see how *some* might view it as such. If you love someone completely, whether they are relative, spouse, friend or neighbor, put of respecting that person is a deeper level of acceptance then what is ordinarily extended to a person you pass on the street. This is something we should be thinking about changing and working to overcome because we care and concern for all members of society is an ideal goal. Yes, I wrote "ideal" and that does not necessarily mean "practical" because what it may take is the TIME and EFFORT of thousands of those already confirmed as understanding social nudism and willing to speak on its behalf. Many are already doing this and I believe nudism on the whole is making inroads to markets it has never touched. People are discussing nudism and recreation, nudism and travel, nudism and politics and nudism with regards to sexual ethics and general human behavior. We relate it as a practice to nearly EVERYTHING because the act of removing clothing and LIVING nudely does touch everything ~or~ will touch everything as more and more people adopt it. We can live it at home, practice it on travel, chat about it with other nudists and even get on Webcam and video chat comfortably now, but the next level of acceptance is going to be broadening the "user base" of participants and getting more and more people to try it and love it as we do. I have recently written something regarding the question of whether or not the attitudes of textile people towards nudists (the reactions they sometimes have) amounts to a form of bullying. I asked the question; I did not mean to make a statement that I alone believe it to be true. I want to know what other people think and the issue goes to a deeper level of meaning such as, "Where does bullying start?" and "What level of attitude DISPLAY constitutes bullying?" (or that is what I meant to the question to ask). Peoples' reactions to other being nude may vary from subtle indifference to outright hostility, and so at some point I believe their reaction does rise to the level of being a bullying-type attitude. In the words, if someone believes they have the right to compell a person to cover up even if they just met on a remote trail somewhere and happen to be te only two persons within miles, where does that attitude come from? Is it a default attitude because the prevailing sentiment across the general population is that people SHOULD be covered? What about those who wear skimpy bikini costumes at the beach? -- Granted not everyone is effected the same way and some surpress their attitudes and just 'live with it', so these things are apparent to us, observed and somewhat understood. Who should we fear the most? I think the only people to fear are those who adopt an anti-nudity attitude and do NOT talk about it openly but instead work in the same manner as we are now working (online) but rather to oppose the advancement of social nudism as a lifestyle/activity. ~ | |
| I think nudists should fear the religious community the most. Much of what I have heard on the news involves religious groups or leaders keeping the nudist lifestyle from progressing. This has been the case with a local nudist group who used to rent out places like skating rinks, bowling alleys and such; an I believe this may also be the primary reason for the harrassment of beach visitors at San Onofre. Never mind the religous backlash from the '04 Latoya wardrobe malfunction incident. | |
| It's the extreame nudist groups those who turn isolated bible verses into sick logic. for example "God made clothes for Adam and Eve so we must be clothed at all time". If that was the case does that mean we should shower with clothes on I don't think so. | |
| Nudist have much more to fear from Hollywood and the secular left than they do from religious extremists. In 99.9% of the movies and television, Hollywood likes to tell us 3 things about nudity: 1. Nudity = Sex 2. Nudity = Sex 3. Nudity = Sex Hollywood also tells us that "beautiful people" are the only ones who should ever, EVER be naked. I'm not the only one here who has had a conversation with a non-nudist only to find out that they believe nudist resorts are all sex clubs. I'm also not the only one here that has had a conversation with a non-nudist only to hear them say that they aren't physically attractive enough. They're too fat, too skinny, penis is too small, butt is too big, too many scars, etc... The secular left doesn't help either, with their insistence that ALL behavior be tolerated, EXCEPT for morality. How many historically nude beaches have been shut down because a very small percentage of people chose to disregard common morality standards??? Take a look at Europe. Non-sexual nudity is much more prevalent in their media. And generally speaking, Europeans have a LOT less hang ups about nudity than Americans. | |
| To keep it short, SunBunny and all others, I'll simply say us - nudists are the ones who hide behind walls, fences, etc. to avoid conflict with textile society, believeing (perhaps rightfully so) we will face arrest, being charged as sexual deviants, ostracized by "polite" society, etc. for simply going about our daily lives clothesfree. Jim | |
| Hollywood doesn’t try to take away our right to enjoying nude recreation. Yes, there concept of nudism is off base. It’s not all religion that opposes nude recreation it’s just those that would not consider naturalism and want to prevent us from our freedom to be nude. | |
| The uninformed. As several have said, the misconceptions that the media proliferate continue to jade the truth behind being a naturist. I do have conversation with non nudists, and continue to correct them when they ask questions like "Do you go to nudist colonies?" as well as address the concept that all nudists are Adonis and Venus body types. Education is, and will always be, the shield and weapon from the uninformed prejudices that society imposes on various 'different' social groups. | |
| In the United States (and maybe it is because Europe has had a longer period of time to work things out) NECESSITY is the plea for every single infrigment on individual liberty.. just let that soak in for a minute can you think of a law passsed taking away a freedom that HAS NOT been classified a NECESSITY... a child is injured riding a bicycle...some parent immediately calls for the NECESSITY (there by law) for EVERYONE child and EVERYONE adult to wear a helmet when riding a bicycle... you immediately no longer have the abilty to chose for yourselves... smoking is another Necessity (generally prefaced by the words..."I myself do not care who smokes..but it is for our children ... another freedom lost...seat belts are another to "protect the children"...and again another freedom lost...restaurants and bars are ridiculed because they will not allow children...in America Tyrannts have learned over the years that the words.."for the safety of our children" will take away any freedom that they want to take away and Americans just stand around and let it happen...and so it is with Nudism in American...for the safety of OUR CHILDREN we simply have to pigeon hole nudism...I just love the words.."This is an appropriate place for nudism"...lmao... Martin Niemoller a Protestant preacher in Nazi Germany said...first they came for the Socialist and I did not speak out Because I was not a Socialist...then they came for the Trade unionist and I did not speak out Because I was not a Trade Unionist...then they came for the Jews and again I did not speak out because I was not Jewish...then they came for me and there was no one left to speak for me... Sooo it is in america...until Americans learn that another groups loss of freedom brings them closer to the loss of their own and speak up about that loss there will be no one left to speak for them... | |
| SB, you ask such stimulating questions to which there are usually equally stimulating answers. I read the question several days ago and thought for a while on my answer. Plain, simple and down to the root of the matter........ignorant people on all sides of society. Most are ignorant because they fail to educate themselves after being taught that nudity is for sex, others who pick and choose a cause, as was stated earlier. Such as the laws passed to protect children because of perverst out there in our society. There are a plethera of ignorance based reasons to fear every segment of society, including from some nudists. The follow up question would/should be; what will we as nudists do to help stieme the ignorance? How far are we willing to go in stretching our own comfort zones to help educate others, and can we educate those who wish to remain ignorant? Only we as individuals can answer that. | |
| What I hear you saying reminds me of one of Ron White's (the comedian) show titles; You Can't Fix Stupid. What can I say, it is something that frustrates me all the time, most of the time all you can do is shake you head, mutter that phrase, and walk on. I still try anyway. AZ, I appreciate you recognizing what I try to do on the site... Make Us Think, plain and simple. We have had some very interesting (and sometimes heated and slightly brutal)discussuons on here because of this, but in the end it is all good because we all come away a little further ahead of where we were in our thoughts previously. If we stop talking, loose the courage to be challenged in our thoughts and crawl back under a rock, how can we ever grow. It is not easy nor is change, but that is our challenge. We all have an opportunity to educate ourselves here on the many facets of social nudity. We are the voices that can begin to change attitudes about social nudity. This is the education we all need to do this. Here is another thought to consider. The law of the jungle can very well apply to this topic. Only the strong survive. We have a choice to be strong in our views and convictions or be weak and become the prey. Up until now we have been the prey, should we not do something to change that? Is it not this weakness we should fear? | |
| An interesting event occurred at my church just two days ago. We were having a Saint Patrick’s Day dinner with corned beef, cabbage, green punch, and green cookies. Part of the evening’s activities was a sing along with several Irish tunes. Later in the evening, one of the men seated next to me started talking about the time he and his wife were invited to perform at Lupin Lodge, the clothing optional resort in the hills just south of San Jose, California. He either did not understand, did not know, or was not informed that it was clothing optional. He described how he was rather surprised when a naked lady walked in and sat down, Then how he was even more surprised and a little concerned when several more people walked in, and how he just did not quite know what to do when the whole front row of the audience was full of people with no clothes. He said there was no way he was going to take his clothes off and neither was his wife. They apparently succeeded in their performance, but were not going to go there again. I could have spoken up and outed myself, but I chose instead to just sit quietly and listen. I did lean over and whispered to my wife that I had been there last year for an afternoon in their hot tub and that it was a nice place. Should I have spoken up and announced my status? What was holding me back? I am not exactly sure, but it just did not seem like the proper time or place to stun the others at our table, and I just did not feel in the mood to have to start explaining myself, maybe another day. Some already know, including the pastor. My wife does know about my past and she accepted it, although she did ask that I not go looking at the naked ladies or let them look at me in the future. I resigned my membership at my own club before we married. She says she does not want to participate, and that is fine. She also was not interested in courtship, marriage, any relationship, or anything else last year and now she is totally thrilled at being married, and told her daughter that her only regret was not getting married a month sooner. Hopefully I can cultivate the same interest in naturism this summer (it is hard to go naked in the cold). | |
| Your fear is what I was speaking of exactly and you let yourself become the prey. You missed an opportunity to educate him and others, especially in a church. There are ways to do it without outing yourself, especially at a church function where judgement is supposed to be not very 'churchy'. Granted you were probably caught flat footed and unable to respond as you said. I think I would have asked the question what he felt was wrong with it? Why did he feel uncomfortable? Then the killer... if he saw or experienced something that would or could be considered lewd? It was all his junk, not yours. I probably who have ended the conversation with the question like how would he feel if the people at Lupin would have rejected him in the same manner he was rejecting them. If he didn't know where he was going he was a dim wit anyway. I would have probably left him feeling more stupid and definitely not the victor. There were probably some around the table that would have admire you for standing up to this stupidity. Hope this helps for next time you run into a like situation because they are definitely out there. | |
| New_Adventurer, I had a similar situation at work today. We have a lady who works in the casino cashier cage whose name is Naama [Nah Ahma] (a Biblical name I recently learned, and I believe a Jewish queen). I was telling her I had recently seen the name referenced on a website I frequent but stopped short of telling her it is a christian naturist site, mentioning only it involved a discussion among participants who are quite fervent in ther Christian beliefs. I held back mentioniong it was a nudist/naturist site because of others nearby who might have overheard the comments and have started to twitter among themselves about it and the fact I outed myself among them as a nudist. It is my fervent desire to spread the joys of nudism yet I again fell short when the opportunity presented itself. What is it about the possible reaction of others to the fact one is a nudist which holds us back? I did tell her I would try to find the exact reference and give her the information about what was said and where I had found it, including the site name. Why is it I am willing to write down and pass along such information but not openly share it where others might overhear me and realize I'm talking about nudism? It is a shortcoming I hope to overcome soon so I will prouldly tell anyone interested I am a nudist and proud of it. Then, let the discussion lead where it may. Jim | |
| I can relate to what Smokey and AZ are saying. When I finally mustered up the courage to actually try social nudism it was due to the fact that I had educated myself about the lifestyle some beforehand. The more I read the more interested I became. I have since joined NCH to, among other things, further educate me on the lifestyle. What a great education it has been so far. One of the biggest lessons I have learned here is that it would appear that the caste system is alive and well in the nudist lifestyle, just with a little different headings than in the textile world. As stated by Smokey, we are divided into "Married/ Single, Young/Old, Member/Non-Member” and to continue, Full Time/Part Time, Couple/Solo, Home/Social, Male/Female etc. I guess if I were to classify myself I would be a “Middle-aged, (I don’t consider myself old yet) Married, Male, Solo, Part Time, Non-Member, Social Nudist”. My classification is probably feared most by all other classes. I should probably most fear the “Old, Married, Couple, Full Time, Member, Social Nudist” who may tend to incorrectly judge me. Fortunately I don’t but I also consider myself lucky that I have had nothing but positive experiences so far. Early on had I ever been incorrectly judged, turned away or experienced any negative treatment based on my “classification” I am pretty certain that I would have turned my back on the lifestyle and easily became one of the many “ignorant textiles”. I am not concerned about that now and believe that my character, integrity and behavior had been the reason for so many positive experiences. I look forward to climbing the nudist social ladder but I have a lot of textile educating to do before that will happen. Got some work to do on my lesson plan. | |
| PerfectTan I think you said it right on. I know my fear of being nude was based on what I was told by my family and peers. That was until I had to overcome the gymphobia associated with being nude. My fear included being nude for physical exams. I started thinking there was a time that males went to the YMCA learned to swim nude. I also started to do reading about nude recreation and prepared to learn the troth about body issues. Once learned I had to go to a beach with the positive attitude that I was going to be nude and the rest was history. | |
| Wayne, you are correct. Back in the late 50's we did swim at the YMCA nude. I think that's where I discovered some people actually wore clothes ALL THE TIME, even at the beach! It was somewhat a reversal of the current conversations, as I was asking why the other boys had "white places and lines" on their bodies. Our family was educated to the fact that there were places we HAD to put on textiles, rather than where it was 'appropriate' to remain naked. I don't hesitate to tell people I have no tan lines, and let conversation develop from there. I generally get a positive response, and proceed to enlighten listeners to the benefits of a clothes free life. I do get a few "Not ME!, I don't have the body for that." I simply explain that in reality, no one has the super-model/weightlifter physique. I repeat my earlier thought that the education of just one person at a time will eventually bring awareness and acceptability of naturism to a wider range of people. If we, as nudists, have and give honest and truthful answers to the questions, and dispel the myths that surround the "secret life" of a nudist family, our lot will prosper and improve. | |
| Well SB, I tried not to use the Ron White, you can't fix stupid comment. I am glad it was evident to you and probably others. | |
| I think it is the small minded people that cannot separate nudity from sex. In many places in the USA if you get caught skinny dipping you are listed as a “Sexual Predator”, I remember reading that about Michigan a few years ago and after that we were careful to not skinny dip in Michigan waters from the sailboat. In Toledo, were we live, the same can happen if we are caught nude in our private back yard now. It is almost impossible to be seen by someone there unless they are trespassing on our land but that is now the law. You go to the movies or watch them on the premium channels and there are all kinds of nudity and sex but don’t you be nude in your yard. Double standard I think. The local news paper, the Toledo Blade, recently reviewed a new movie “Wanderlust” and called it a poor movie about a Couple that moved into a hippie commune. Here is a sample of the review “The trouble with their fish-out-of-water comedy isn't the premise -- unemployed Manhattan couple George (Rudd) and Linda (Aniston) move to a Georgia hippie commune with the expected consequences -- but their failure to do anything interesting and consistently funny with it. Wanderlust mostly relies on lifestyle gags involving the hippies and George and Linda, including a lack of privacy, meditation rituals, free love, drugs, nudism, and insects' right to life.” From this I see we nudists are hippies in Toledo for being nudists. With things like this being said about a move I saw reviewed in the AANR E- Bulletin and thought it must have been a different movie with the same name and actors. We as nudist need to keep showing the textile world that nudity as practiced by the majority of nudists is a clean, healthfull and wholesome way to live. I know the AANR and The Naturalist Society along with most nudist resorts work to promote the nudist life styles in the communities where they are located. When anyone asks me why I am a nudist I like to respond “I was born with no clothes on and am not ashamed of sill being that way”. | |
| Court Systems! Unless you have a nudist judge and nudist attorneys on both side of a case, the nudist will loose. Don't believe it... just look at the current state of the laws surrounding public, social, recreational nudity. My recommendation, stay out of the courts. | |
| It's a risk when you go get the mail in your robe and have it open ... or go get the mail and enjoy walking part of the way naked ... in the middle of the day or during times when you're likely to be seen. "I" have posted numerous times about pushing the "bounderies" with my nudity. I've done it for the past 4.5 years with my neighbor. I almost NEVER wear clothes outside in our backyard. I have been seen by him and his wife too many times to count. I wasn't standing there in front of his second story window so they could see me... I just went about my normal routine of doing what I do ... or what anyone does in their backyard ... if they were clothed. Because of the way I presented my nudity to them is why, I think, they didn't give it a second thought and I was never reported to the police. I've been seen in the same fashion by my 2 story neighbors across the street and they too have taken the attitude that I'm not being lewd, obnoxious or exhibitionist ... but just living normally where I think I have a reasonable expectation of privacy. NOW... with regards to the mail. I have and do go get our mail in my robe ...most times... at very late hours in the evening...how late? Try ... 12:30A to 3:30am. I think I have a good idea of the traffic patterns in my neighborhood that I can do that and expect NOT TO BE SEEN! On occasion, I have encountered a vehicle at those late/early hours and only had one car turn and follow me back to my house. When I stopped and walked to the car to ask what they wanted... they were simply wondering who I was and if I belonged in the neighborhood (neighborhood watch). Then they said..."sorry if we scared you, have a nice night." Robe on ... but tied closed!!! If I were "stupid"... the robe would have been open to prove a dumb point ... and that's not why "I" do what I do. If the opportunity arises to go to the mailbox and walk with an open robe...I'll take it ... as long as I know I'm not exposed to anyone else. It's NOT about the exposure as much as it is the free feeling to enjoy it for myself and NOT my neighbors. Another example would be: Each year our club holds a "Nude Attitude Car Show" on the club grounds. It's is sponsered by a car club outside the nudist club and it is open to the public! For the last two years, we have participated with a classic car. Last year it was warm enough to be naked the entire time... I WAS! Now...you can argue that the textiles know what they are getting into and should realize that they "may" see naked people but even some of the guest and residents of the club come to look at the cars and cover while they are mixing with the public. I chose not to...as did many other members and nudist participants with their cars on display. It's not about exposing yourself to others...It's about exposing them to another way of life and to show them that it really isn't as horrible as they think or were told to think. If this group of people hated being around naked people...this car club would not hold this car show at our club year after year after year. :) But...with some nudists feeling that doing these things might be wrong, stupid, unnecessary, inappropriate ... I stand by my initial post that maybe ... it's "us" we should fear! Obviously...these are my opinions and everyone is entitled to their's ... as long as they don't infringe on mine or refer to my opinions as wrong! ;) | |
| Family. If strangers have an issue with my naturism they don't have to participate. Disapproving immediate family can make life extremely difficult. Most people won't get rid of spouses or kids who don't allow nudism. They just live without. | |
| Rollercoaster, you're right - it definitely is immediate family. My wife recently made it clear she won't try to talk to me anymore but threatens to end our marriage if I go nude about the house (except in the bedroom with the door closed) or the backyard. It also inmcludes being properly "clothed" both inside and outside, which means shorts as opposed to underwear, robe, wrap, etc. But, she apparently is okay with me attending social gatherings with other nudists as long as I don't come home to tell her about it, which I have not done the four times I have attended such gatherings. However, if she asks I will answer her questions and adise her to check it out with me if she as doubts about the truth. Not ideal, in my opinion, since I'd love to go clothes-free all the time if possible but a decent compromise at least if she'll hold to it. Jim | |
| Thats sad Jim, but it reminds me of that country song about the wife who threatens to leave if the guy goes fishing and he says "I'm gonna miss her, oh looky there, I gotta bite"! | |
| Well said. Jim | |
| What is said is true ... BUT ... THIS is a group of Absolute Naturists. There are other groups that proclaim their own reasons and standards for existance ... why can't Absolute Naturists? It's difficult to understand why anyone would want or request admission into a group where they don't agree with the groups philosophy or want to conform to the group's standards. Why is it that there are several here on Absolute Naturist group that want to argue the very permiss that this group was started and it's philosophies? YOU DON'T have to be a member here. What the owner of this group has asked for, in members of this particular group, is that you agree with the premiss and standards of which this group was originated and founded. I don't understand the need for some to join every group on NCH and then complain about the very permiss and philosophy of those groups they join! ;) | |
| I don't know what the answer is to your particular situation Jim. It's troubling on various levels as to why someone can be married to another person and you can't be open and honest about what is troubling you in the relationship. Your wife is now talking to you ... through your daughter. In my opinion, not a healthy relationship between the two of you. Your wife is unwilling to see you naked unless it's in the bedroom and you are not allowed to be naked in your own home or in your backyard. You can only wear shorts ... seems like quite a lot of rules between a couple that is devoted to each other in sickness, health, better or worse ... there's some real communication issues that need to be resolved. I would not remain in a relationship with someone that isn't truthful with me, upfront and honest with me and that can not talk to me directly but needs to speak through a moderator. In my opinion, that's not a marriage and some open discussion needs to happen. It would in my relationship and has ... and it continues daily. Good luck! FP | |
| Well, FireProf, my wife did talk directly to me yesterday, giving me her "requirements". She just isn't comfortable with nudity and fells I'm not the same man she married. No doubt my past unfaithfulness, about 20 years ago plays a factor. She did say it's okay for me to socialize with other nudists, if I want to look at "dicks and pussies" but not to talk to her about it. We'll see where it goes from here. Right now we're in a tough spot with a new grandchild and my possible job loss within the next few days for standing up for what I believe is right. Jim | |
| FireProf, who specifically were you addressing in saying some have hijacked this forum, Absoluute Nudists, and moved away from the original purpose of discussion? You also said you don't know why some feel a need to join every group and comment. You may have been directing your comments at me. Well, I re-read the original question - Who do we have to fear most, textiles or ourselves (nudists)? If you and SunBunny feel I have violated the intent of this forum, please feel free to move my post(s) elsewhere and remove me from this group. I will then understand it was believed my post(s) was/were inappropriate. I've been referenced before, though not named, about some of my posts and activities which I wrote about, such as walking to/from the mailbox with my robe open, yet it was admitted by you, you have done exactly the same. I don't feel I have anything to apoloigize for, since I have been truthful all the way but certainly never intended to hijack this or any oher group or to offend anyone here or elsewhere. Jim | |
| Jim ... first thing, my comments were made toward the poster bakobd ... not to you. As far as your situation at home ... that's for you to decide what is more important and what is worth working on and giving up. Nudism can't be a "break all, end all" issue. But communication, honest and open communication between husband and wife ... can be a "break all, end all" if there isn't any or if there are secrets, regrets, fears and concerns with each other. It's obvious from your wife's perspective that nudism and nudity is sex based only. There's no telling if any amount of talking and educating will change her mind but ... if there are trust issues, that needs to be worked out first and maybe in your situation ... that's what is most important. Allowing you to go to nudist functions to look at penis's and vaginas but not tell her about it ... is not helping the trust issue and it's only making "her" opinions strengthen her negative thoughts about the lifestyle. That's why I feel that real open and honest communication on those issue and NOT on nudism or being naked take place and resolved way before any further talk of nudism or attendance at nudist functions take place. But then again ... it's only my opinion and it's your decision to make. Again ... I wish you all the luck in resolving your situation. FP | |
| I removed my previous post. I'm not sure why it was considered to be contrary to the intentions of the group moderators but I'm not one to create trouble. The question was about whom to fear most and I gave my honest opinion. Maybe I misunderstood the intent of the question. If you feel that because of my opinions I don't belong in this group, then I'll leave without complaint. | |
| Your freedom to participate in nude recreation, or practically anything else, is most threatened by the government. Others are essentially irrelevant. | |
| FireProf & Jim... this in not a marital advice topic or group. Bakodb, as the group owner I don't get my nose out of joint on discussions and if I saw a reason to remove your post I would do it. The only reason to do that would be if you are being disrespectful or offensive. We have some pretty tough and honest discussions in this group. It is not for the meek. I am not sure what you said in your post since I did not read it before you deleted it so I can't comment on it specifically. The only thing I say is that you be the judge of your comments, if you can't stand behind it... don't write it. All I ask is that you stay on topic or create new one. That is pretty much how we roll in this group. BillBowser, Thanks for getting us back on track with this topic. Lots of interesting perspectives so far. SB | |
| SB, I'm not sure why my post was considered off-topic, but since a moderator thought so I deleted it. I'll never be disrespectful to anyone or engage in inflamatory rhetoric. No hard feelings at all here. It's a moderator's prerogative and right to keep the group in their desired direction. I choose to join groups in which I have a genuine interest or affinity. When I no longer have that interest then I'll graciously leave. NOTE from SB: No worries here,we're cool. Let's here more from you on all the other topics we have on AN. Thanks for being part of the group. | |
| standing alone and speaking about my beliefs when we should, instead, be standing together and shouting out about our beliefs | |
| To SunBunny and all others. Sorry if I took the things off-track. I have corresponded privately in the past with bakobd and have been shaing correspondence with FireProf as well. I absolutely don't want to take things off topic. I sincerely desire to live as an Absolute Nudist, though I may not be able to do so. BillBowser, you're absolutely right about the government being our greatest concern about our rights to go nude. Jim | |
| I fear clothes! LOL | |
| Obama | |
| Interesting question Who? or indeed What should we fear most. For myself it will definitely be those naked people purporting to be nudists! The ones in the dunes and in the open, the ones bringing sex into nudism. Please, I am by no means a prude but it seems quite clear that the sexual conduct of some is bringing us all into disrepute. | |
| Such a good topic, so many interesting comments. Listing them in order, I'd say: 1. Government, making laws that make it harder or impossible to be nude in a social setting. As was said earlier, illegal to be nude in your own, private backyard? Going too far. 2. Religious groups or individuals who want to cram their idea of what people should be doing down everyone's throat. Unfortunately, these people tend to scream the loudest and get all the attention. 3. The Swingers who frequent nude beaches and some clubs and have sex up in the dunes or out on the beach with everyone walking by. They're the ones providing the ammunition for the two previous groups of people. 4. Us. The meek nudist who doesn't try to educate, who hides their nudism because they don't want to stigmatize themselves or their family. I try to educate my friends and co-workers about nudism whenever I can, but the attitude of Eeeewwww, is still there. Solutions: Education is the big one, but so is speaking out when someone tries to lump nudism in the swingers or sex clubs. Have a great nude day everyone. | |
| Its us. We need to promote nudist and make it mainstream. | |
| I was an expert witness in a jury trial a couple of months ago. The judge (who is not a nudist) totally understood what we're about. It was a good win. | |
| Glad to hear it, Cheri. Hopefully there will be mre oportunities to educate others about what naturism/nudism is really all about. Jim | |
| For me, it was my next door neighbors. I've lived in my house since 1990 and never had a problem with the neighbors next door (these are tenants #4). Last weekend, they were apparently having a party. It was a nice evening for gardening so I was taking advantage of the cool air and watering my plants and pulling weeds. There were some kids at the party (no kids live next door) and one of my dogs started barking at the noise. Apparently, they looked through the cracks in the wood fence to see the "cute puppy" and saw me. I had to take care of a few things indoors for about 30 minutes and then one of my dogs wanted to go back outside (he's an old dog and sometimes needs help to go outside). While I was there, I started gardening again. I heard a loud knocking on my front door which I ignored (the candidates were still campaigning). A couple minutes later, a man looks over my fence (on my other neighbor's side) and said "Police, we need to talk with you." Well, I threw a shirt and shorts on and went to the door. My neighbor had filed a complaint because I was naked in my yard. Again, you can't casually see through the fence. You have to put your eyeball against the crack to see through. They (3 officers) started asking me questions like what I was doing and have I ever been arrested before. (I was gardening and no.) I did ask if I was being arrested and they said no, that there wasn't anything wrong with being naked in my backyard. They then told me about the kids looking through the fence and seeing me. What really bothered me was they wrote up a report on me even though I didn't do anything wrong. They asked me to stay indoors while the kids were next door. I didn't think then, but I should have asked if they told the neighbor that they shouldn't be peeping toms. I thought it would have been a good opportunity for the neighbor to tell the kids that "nude isn't lewd" and that they shouldn't spy on people. I have since covered the cracks because I don't like the invasion of my privacy. Do I now have a police record? | |
| Jaybird, I don't know what state you live in, but if that had happened in CA, you could have immediately filed an invasion of privacy complaint against your neighbors, In CA, if you have made a reasonable effort to protect your privacy, like a six foot fence, then you can claim invasion of privacy, because making a point of looking through the cracks in the fence is an effort to violate your privacy. We are our own worst enemy, followed closely by religion. Most are happy to let AANR provide them with a place to go, instead of using the legal system to fight for the places the newer generations prefer, like beaches, lakes, etc. | |
| We have new neighbors. Our previous, tolerant/accepting, neighbors sold and we've yet to actually talk to these new neighbors so we are not sure how they feel about our nudity. I've been concerned about one particular window of that home that looks down onto our backyard. I was working back there when my wife caught me staring up at this window and she asked ... "what are you looking at?" I said..."just making sure they don't look down on us." She said ... "why would they stand in their bathtub to look out that window to look at us?" "Bath tub?" She says ... "yeah, that their bathtub window." I've been worried that it was some bedroom window or office and they'd be looking down on us all the time ... so I was concerned. As I look back on the previous neighbors and the times they saw us ... it was always when they were closing the window and shutters and the A/C immediately went on! I still wanna talk to these people and tell them what we do and get some feedback. It would be much easier on my heart and blood pressure! LOL | |
| Or you could plant a stand of Italian Cypress, and let it grow till it blocks that view. | |
| There's already a "new" tree (the previous tree died) planted to eventually block that window. And ... I hate Italian Cypress. We have these smaller version of black crows that live in those Italian Cypress and the destroy our pool deck! LOL I'm out on IC and besides ... it is their tub window. I shouldn't worry so much. If the cops come a knockin' ... I'll explain and face the music then! But til then ... I continue to water and Miracle Grow the heck outta that tree! LOL | |
| Instead of worrying or waiting for the right moment... be a good old fashion kind of neighbor and take them a "Welcome To the Neighborhood" gift like a nice yummy carrot cake with that on iced on the top of it. Don't do wine, wrong initial message. By doing this it gives you an opportunity to meet face to face in a positive fashion and the first crack at giving them info on the neighborhood on your terms. They are probably feeling a little apprehensive just being the new kids on the block. At the same time casually tell them that you and your wife like to enjoy your backyard nude but that it is nothing wild and crazy. It you get a positive feeling you can invite them over for dinner and explore further. By not doing anything you leave it all up to their imagination and that is never good. Just my thoughts nd how I would approach it. | |
| It was always our intent, even with the old neighbors ... but ... in true surburban tract home fashion, nowadays, your neighbors are only neighbors ... technically speaking. Most people don't want to get to know their neighbors, us included. That's why we bought a home with just one neighbor! LOL It's not the right thing but it is a fact that "they", ALL our neighbors, don't make ANY attempt to get to know us or each other as well. We will certainly make the first move. My wife is off work now for the next couple months and when we finally see them out front and they seem approachible ... we'll go over and invite them for ... a naked romp in our backyard with whiskey and plenty of tequilla! LOL Just kiddin' of course. Is a store bought carrot cake ok ... or do I really have to bake them one! LMAO ;) | |
| DUDE! Put an apron on and Bake It, geez...just try not to drag anything in the cake batter. LMAO also. On second thought, maybe plant another tree. LMAOx2. ok... cool, over and out. | |
| RabbitnBunny - Yea, it was in CA. I thought about that the invasion part AFTER the police left. To tell you the truth, I was so shaken at the time, that I wasn't thinking straight. I'm not use to interaction with the police (not even a traffic ticket). I just went and bought some wood slats to cover the cracks in the fence. Now it looks like jail bars on my fence but at least my pervert neighbors won't be sneaking peaks at me. I don't mind them seeing me nude, but I don't like the privacy invasion. And, even though the police said I didn't do anything wrong, they sure made me feel like they were treating me as a criminal. Like, i said, the experience left me shaken. | |
| [SunBuny Quote; DUDE! Put an apron on and Bake It, geez...just try not to drag anything in the cake batter. LMAO End Quote] Geez is right! You make it sound so easy ... "put on an apron!" LMAO I don't know if we own an apron! LOL Ok ... give me a week or so and I'll see what I can do. Standby for an update. ;) | |
| What we as nudist need to fear most is legislation that is antinudity. We need to be proactive and get involved in the political process. We can have fund raising dinners and other events to raise the money we need to fight nudity opponents. Part of our dues goes for that but most of all we have to have our voice heard in numbers. I am hoping the AANR will call on all nudists to rally when necessary. | |
| I think all has been said. We should fear ourselves first. who has done a complete coming out? Who can tell that everybody knows around him or her that he/she is a proud nudist who has taken the time to explain why, suffered criticism and continue living this art of life? Yes legislation and religion can be feared too, but as a minority in most countries, our rights to be nude should be respected. And for that we should be able to defend our views and art of life openly. Society (and religion) has banned nudity because it has linked it to sex, now for centuries. It will take generations to have a complete acceptance of nudity, but we need to stand firm, and for this we need to be proud. AANR, or its French equivalent for me, plays an important role in promoting nudity, and our first step should be to be part of these organizations. I am proud to be a nudist/naturist. And I am open and respectful to people who are not, but if comes the time to tell people I love being nude, I say it, although I understand others may not share this way of life. All in all, it comes with respect, both ways. Respect the fact I like to be nude, I'll respect the fact you do not like it. And for the Christians among us, read Psalm 118:6, The LORD is with me; I will not be afraid. What can man do to me? | |
| I agree with you, MarcNude, respect the fact I like to be nude and I will respect the fact you don't. I wish society would get over the hang-ups about non-sexual nudity. Jim | |
| Mailer Attacks Osceola Commission Candidate's Nudist Lifestyle By David Breen, Orlando Sentinel 5:21 p.m. EST, August 8, 2012 Jeffery Goldmacher is running for the Osceola County Commission on familiar issues such as cutting government red tape and boosting the local economy. But a less conventional issue — his nudist lifestyle — is taking center stage. A mailer that purports to show a nude, snorkeling Goldmacher has raised the Republican candidate's ire. He said he has been forthright about living at the Cypress Cove Nudist Resort & Spa near Poinciana but insists that the photo is not of him and that the mailer is full of untruths. "I come right out and tell people that I live in a clothing-optional resort, not a nudist colony," Goldmacher said. "Only lepers and ants live in colonies." The mailer was sent by Melbourne-based With Women We Will Win, an organization whose Facebook page says it supports women candidates for office. There are no women running in Goldmacher's race. According to state records, With Women We Will Win has spent about $5,000 during the 2012 campaign cycle. Founder Deanna Murray did not respond to a request for comment. The mailer asks voters to "say yes to decency and no to nudism and atheism on our county commission." Goldmacher, a first-time candidate, objects to the claim that he's an atheist. "I am Jewish," he said. "I just don't belong to a temple or a synagogue. I practice my religion in my own way." The 56-year-old Goldmacher, who is retired, is running against Tony Ferentinos and Ivan Rivera in Tuesday's Republican primary for the District 3 commission seat. He said he's not sure if the anti-nudism mailer will cost him votes, but he's putting the best possible spin on the situation. As he recalled telling an audience during a recent forum: "At least there's one candidate who believes in transparency. I have nothing to hide and no place to hide it." | |
| Anybody that doesn't agree with nudism or its principles. Also, people that don't follow the concept "to each his/her own". In regards to the article I posted about the candidate running for the county commission being attacked via mailers because of his being a nudist, I have a good feeling that the gentleman probably never heard of the organization (With Women We Will Win) that was sending out the mailings until it became an issue. Talk about being blindsided. | |
| To boldly cut thru the chaff, Fear itself. When you quit your fear, you stop the phobia, you stop the negative vibe and all becomes a non-issue and we live our lives as WE choose. It is about as simple as that. I use a Spider Analogy when thinking about this sort of thing. I don't like spiders and it use to drive me crazy when I saw one. I would run around looking for killer spray, try to swat them with a fly swatter, call the orkin man, do whatever I could to eradicate them...all crazy stuff because I feared them. Now I just let them live where they want to be and let them eat the bugs they catch in their webs. I still don't like them but I have allowed myself to learn to live with them and not fear them. It's a peaceful co-existence. Like what we are trying to achieve as nudists. | |
| Ahh, SunBunny, peaceful coexistence between the clothed and the nude is my pipedream. Your statement the thing we have to fear most is fear itself. It really is what holds so many of us, and probably many textiles, from experiencing the wonderful freedom of nudity every moment of every day. Jim | |
| The religious community...not to be feared but educated. I am a religious Jew, and in fact, my rabbis have both understood what we're about. | |
| Cheri - You are absolutely right in terms of education. I am a conservative traditional Catholic since I was baptized. Nudism is fairly new to me (4 years). If one reads Pope John Paul's encyclical, Humanae Vitae, he writes that nudity in and of itself is not lewd, dirty or sinful. It's the beauty of God's creation. If we become lustful then it's a different story. But that is not we are about. I have spoken with my pastor about it and he concurs. So it gets down to people not knowing their faith and the bible. We may have learned our doubts from people who themselves have misunderstandings, lack of knowledge etc. | |
| Fear not my naked friends for if gas prices continue to climb, house values keep falling and jobs continue to disappear... the entire country will be so broke nobody will be able to afford clothing and the nudist population will grow! | |
| Exbrit, if it will cause everyone to give up clothing I have to say this current financial mess will have one bright spot in it. Jim |
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