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Absolute Naturists Social Nudity - A Civil Right or Civil Liberty?
| I often hear arguements for social (public) nudity being argued as a civil right. I sometimes hear arguements for it being a civil liberty. Is it either? Should it be? Your thoughts please. | |
| OK I'll bite first. In my opinion, in a perfect world it shouldn't matter which because people would have enough respect/tolerance for each other in the first place. That being said, it could be either. I'm basing this on my (very)rudementary understanding of the US Constitution. If used in a religious context of an organized/recognized religion during congregational meetings (freedom to practice ones own religion free from governmental encumberances). A Civil Liberty is much more complicated in that you (individual citizen) may not infringe on the rights of others in their persuit of life, liberty and happiness (obviously more complicated that stated). Could probably be argued in court and be successful but it is cost prohibitive. Just my honest opinion and please feel free to disagree (that is also your right). | |
| or on the other hand, maybe it is neither. Maybe it is just another way of living. As if do you choose to part your hair on the left side or right side (assuming you have hair). But if it is neither, how do we go about protecting our right to live nude in our society if we are not hurting anyone or being overtly offensive to anyone. Should nudist just stop the CR or CL banter because it has no foundation or merit. Geez, not sure... | |
| As naturists it is a natural right. Being that we are born nude we have the right to enjoy nudist activity as long as we are in no way being obscene. | |
| It could be and should be a Civil Liberty. In the pursuit of our happiness (nudists/naturists). We do have the Civil Right to be nude. I also agree, we need not and should not infringe on others right to be happy. Ours is certainly an uphill battle that can only be taken inch by inch as we educate the textile society on the subject of nudism, its health benefits both physical and psychological. | |
| According to the U.S. Constitution, men (mankind) is born with certain inalienable (God given as opposed to government-granted) rights, among them life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness (some say the original wording stated property). I guess therefore, I would have to argue nudity is a civil right, granted by government. But, it is also a civil liberty, which again I believe means government granted). However, I believe we should have the inalienable right to go nude when and where we please as long as no harm is caused to anyone else and their rights/liberties are not infringed upon. Jim | |
| Jim, the language you are citing is from the Declaration of Independence, not the Constitution. The Declaration is an interesting historical document but it is not, and never was, a law. | |
| Neither document is the law. Believe that being nude is a civil liberty. Where we choose to practice it is another matter. | |
| WHERE we are allowed to practiced it negates it as a civil liberty. By dictating where you are allowed to practice nudity confines your ability and therefore negates your ability to CHOOSE where to practice it. Seems to me anyway. I am still thinking it is neither, but closer to a CL than a CR. | |
| I can get behind the religion concept. That would open the door for all kinds of fun. 'Sorry folks I have to get undressed to go to church!'LOL. | |
| Oops. Thanks, Canyonhawk, for the correction. Jim | |
| I would like to see naturism as a civil freedom, whatever you want to call it, liberty or right. My only worry is that whenever the government gets involved there are frequently more restrictions. The government wants to control everything you do until you can do nothing. We need to be careful that our quest for a civil liberty does not result in a civil liability. | |
| Very true New Adventurer. I wish there were more imn Washington and all levels of government who believed the smaller and less intrusive the better. Though this may read like a broken record I wish we were free to practice naturism/nudism everywhere. Jim | |
| Any new thoughts or opinions on this subject? Please jump in... | |
| I read definitions of Civil Rights and Civil Liberties and our rights and liberties as "naturists/nudists" can easily fall into either category BUT ... since mainstream society doesn't think like we do ... I think our Civil Rights and Liberties are trampled on by the way those in authority and in the majority think. If taken at face value and definition ... we should be able to be naked wherever we want. But simple nudity isn't an accepted way of life for many more people than there are of us. Even within our own community of naturists, there are probably many more of us nudists that don't want anyone knowing ... we're nudists! I wonder if the situation in the Castro District of San Francisco will have any baring on what's to come. If a community can coexist between textiles and nudists ... will other communities follow? More later on my thoughts ... ;) | |
| I seem to recall the Supreme court declaring that nudity was a form of free speech, which then would make it a civil right. | |
| So it is a civil liberty if we walk down a street and may offend others? There is reason as well. On federal land, private property be in your own or a resort. As it was said before as long as we don't offend others or infringe on their rights as well. A few get, what I call indignant, over being nude. "I was born that way" so some think, "I have the right/liberty to go nude when and wherever." | |
| There are too many groups in the US including law enforcement and courts who see nudity as an inherently hostile act. As an analogy, you have the right to carry a gun, but not to pull it out and threaten people with it. Even though you have the right to be as you are, many see public nudity as brandishing your weapon with hostile intent. There are many people who can't understand public nudity as anything but a threat. | |
| Well, of course, the freedom to go nude should be a civil right or liberty. While not specified in the U.S. Constitution, the constitution is a document to give the organizational framework to the government and to list its rights and duties and to restrict it. Just because something is not specifically listed, said the framers, was not to disparage it. Excellent book to read is "Ain't Nobody's Business If You Do, the Absurdity of Consensual Crimes in a Free Society" by Peter McWilliams on the whole issue of Civil Liberties. Pages 677 - 679 discusses public nudity. The book should be given to every politician and every cop. As for nudity offending: a noted constitutional authority pointed out that there is no constitutional right NOT to be offended. Lots of things offend someone. There has to be a more compelling reason for the state to get involved. For public nudity, at least on public beaches, to be recognized as a right (or at least be tolerated), we have to organize and advocate for our rights . If the gays could achieve as much as they have, surely we can get our rights too. There is not as much resistance to nude beaches as supposed. See http://www.michigannudebeachadvocates.org/Articles.html#OK_to_be_Open | |
| The Supreme Court issued a decision saying nudity was a form of free speech when included in a forum like a play/theatre. | |
| A civil right and a civil liberty is the same thing. But most important concept to understand is that no law, no government, and especially not even the constitution GIVES us any rights (or liberties). Rights are natural, unalienable (pronounced un-a-lien-able, meaning that you can't put a lien on your rights as one might put a lien on some property that hasn't been fully paid for yet), God given or inherited by virtue of our humanity. The constitution is merely a piece of paper with an acknowledgement of some of those rights listed (not exhaustive) for the purpose of creating a contract specifying that the government shall not try to make a law restricting those rights. Unfortunately, the government has broken every single one of those promisses in one way or another, yet we the People idly sit by and let it happen, or the few that have the guts to stand up against the tyrany get mowed down by the government and the People again let that happen too (remember Ruby Ridge and Waco). All that to say, being natural as God created us is just one more right that the government has taken from us. Yes, it is a right, but you can't exercise that right with impunity today. |
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