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Nudist Individuals Today's AANR e-bulletin
| A single lady started a column about the poor treatment "singles" male and female, get at most clubs. A very familiar subject here in NCH. Maybe she will make a dent in the restrictions but I doubt it. I joined NCH when I found how singles were viewed during my first 3 club visits hoping there was an answer. All I found is very limited sucess and lots of complaining with few answers beyond "hoping" the established clubs come around and accept singles. The way sexuality is viewed and child protection reigns in the USA I see no "hope" in our immediate future and have concluded I won't experience European openess here in my lifetime. Being the "lone wolf" type who would rather sit by myself and enjoy getting away from people because of my profession dealing daily with lots of souls doesn't help adding to suspicions about my singleness and my desire to be nude and mostly alone while doing it. Clubs of any type hold newbies at arms length, nudity adds another big glitch in an overly repressive and protective society. I'm going to give it one more try this season to see if I can break through the club singles shield but I'm not too encouraged given all the evidence to the contrary. Jmaxn1 the discouraged nudist. Nudies2 Comments : Jmaxn1, I have reasons to agree with your take on the article, it will most likely make a little or no dent at all | |
| Correct me if I'm wrong ... but by your own admission, you prefer to be alone and not mingle with people because of your profession. HOW are other nudists suppose to get to know you and form a trust with you if you won't allow them to socialize with you or you with them? WE are a primarily non-trusting people. Just because someone smiles at you and says "hi"...doesn't automatically make them a friend and trustworthy. They must earn that trust and it simply will not happen unless you are willing to be more open and social. There are tell tale signs that some want and need the space and alone time. One female member here states that she plugs into her Ipod, opens her book and that's the sign that most should realize she would rather be left alone. IF you plant yourself in the middle of a social setting, say ... the pool deck, it's pretty much assumed you may be open to being more ... social as oppose to going off and sitting under a tree far away from everyone else. Everyone has their own issues concerning their abilities to practice nudism, becoming social or visiting a club. Sometimes a non landed nudist club works best for those just breaking into the social nudist circle. Don't give up on nudist clubs if you're not willing to meet them and their members half way! ;) Nudies2 Moderator Comment....FireProf, Do you write this strong when it comes to political opinions between Demos, and Repubs ? Thanks for taking the time to participate. ( grin ) | |
| If I go to a nudist resort in Europe or the Carribean I can be by myself and enjoy being so with no restrictions. I'm accepted as a fellow nudist without changing who or what I am and relax. Not so here, I have to adapt to the rules and demands imposed by clubs. Going to a nudist resort or club is a vacation and getaway for me and I do not wish to jump through hoops of acceptance to enjoy myself especially after reading all the AANR and others praise, acceptance and benefits of the nudist life style. The young nudists forming their own groups like Vita Nuda have it right by accepting everyone but they have age limits, more USA nudist prejudice with one young lady of that group saying she doesn't want to be "eye candy for some geezer." So it goes, to each their own. I wonder what group she will be involved in if still single and dumped because of her age? And yes, I have experienced hostitity at 2 of the 3 clubs I visited. At one a stranger comes out of nowhere and confronts me with "what's your opinion on nude children?" At another I was told to always keep my genitalia exposed so they can "see what's going on down there!" And a seemingly gay fellow approaches me asking how my interviews were going, how did he know? Was I being tested? All contributing to my assertions that they are very suspicious of singles, and me, making me feel more of an outsider even after being told by a reviewing committee member I was a "true nudist." | |
| But I truly think the fact that you are male, a loner and unsocialible ... automatically makes "some" people suspicious of your intentions ... regardless of "what" we as nudists should think, we are also just people with the same prejudices and hang ups as our textile counterparts. NOT everyone is the same but ... I will guarantee you that each and everyone of us does NOT drop those prejudices with our clothes. It would be awesome for the US to have the same attitude towards nudity as Europe or parts of the Caribbean ... but we don't. WE as Americans have lots of hang ups and are an untrusting bunch of people. One bad apple may not spoil the entire barrel but ... we will usually pass on that barrel everytime if there was a bad apple in the mix and it makes us skeptical of taking an apple from that barrel even after the bad one has been disgarded. Clubs and resorts have some pretty screwed up rules...that's no question. Nudists, both general membership nudists and those in power making the rules are hypocritical and talk outta both sides of their mouths ... sound familiar (politics). Those with the most influence in making the rules are most likely those that live in these communities on a daily basis and they want to make their clubs and resorts for them and their kind ... and some of us ... aren't their kind. Nothing changes by sitting alone by yourself and wanting to be left alone. I've discuss this and argued this with the younger people on this and other sites. If you want change ... you have to get involved and make the changes. They don't happen over night, they don't happen while you're sitting by yourself and they certainly will never happen if you refuse to be sociable. ;) | |
| I also see your point Olivia and have seen and heard what you are speaking of. Just because "we" enjoy being nude...does NOT give other nudists the right to think that anything and everything goes. Rude comments, personal questions to strangers ... would NOT be permissible in the textile world and they are equally NOT permissible in the nudist world. Some nudist guys and gals think because we've dropped our clothes at the door, that we've also dropped our tact and manners. It should be very easy to find if someone is willing to be social with you. Simply walking by and saying "hello." If they respond with a smile, nod or quick "hello." That should tell you they aren't interested in any further conversation. If the person is reading a book and puts the book down to acknowledge your "hello" ... they "may" want to continue conversation but conversation does NOT include rude or personal comments or questions. I find it hard to believe that guys can't take the hint that when a single female comes to the beach,club or resort, sits alone, opens and book, plugs into her music ... that she prefers to be left alone and not bothered but ... so many single guys and married guys think "they" have what it takes to get her to put the book down. If she wants to talk to you ... you'll know it! LOL Not every guy making conversation is on the prowl. Many of them are happily married, attached ...whatever. Some are just "friendly", like me! I like to meet people and just say "hi". If they continue the conversation, I'll gladly participate. If I get a "courtesy" "hi" in return and that's it...I move on with ..."enjoy your day." I think those that prefer to be alone and not be bothered run the risk of being labeled as unfriendly, unapproachable and ... may be there for the wrong reasons. Is it right? Not always but again...we are typically a non trusting species and always on guard and skeptical of others intensions. Wish it could be different but I can be TOO trusting sometimes! ;) | |
| I have re-read your comments fireprof and I'm uncomfortable with what you say. So everyone should be like you? We who are not like you, are bad and wrong because of who we are, what we are and how we be? You sound just like the clubs, do it our (your) way or the highway! What about acceptance of the fellow nudist no matter what? If the person turns up a jerk, etc. then dump him/her. A Napoleonic kangaroo court mentality that says you are guilty and prove differently isn't much fun just because you are a single. Being at a club reminds me of an oppressive society that constantly looks out for the non conformist, those that are different and inherently suspect because they are different. The last club I was at has many year round homes and camp sites, as I toured the area checking it out and trying to get an idea of what it was all about I could see and feel the distrust coming from the homes and people I came across, not a single "hello how are you" just wary looks as a stranger looks at them and their abodes. I guess each single should get horse blinders so they pay attention to themselves until the day of acceptance by the Status Quo. You say I/we singles here chatting are unsociable~~not so~~ we walk into an envonment that says we are because we are treated as outsiders from the get go just by being single compounded by who we are. | |
| YOU obviously didn't read my post OR ... you took my comments out of context! Quote my comments, explain what YOU think I meant by them and I will explain further. One of the issues we seem to have is that some want to compare Europe nudity acceptance and the lack of it in the US. That's a given and not something anyone's gonna change in the near future. But...without openness, communication and socializing ... a single that prefers to be left alone and not be social ... is going to run the risk of the way US naturists treat those like that ... with skeptisim and caution. ;) | |
| Hello Fireprof.I can understand what you are saying,But some single males and i am one of them are driven to keep to themself,because of the way we are received and treated by others,female,couples and even other singles. Regards Andrew. | |
| I understand that. I was treated the same way ... and I am not or have never been a "single" male in the last 43 years (39 of them married to my lovely nudist wife)! LOL When I visited our club for the first time, I was alone. The Prof didn't want to visit a club. She thought it was too rustic and had become comfortable with the "resort" scene. I visited alone for some time, then stopped visiting and stuck it out with the resorts. I later convinced my wife to try the club and after she did, she liked it ... But, I was treated the same way and on occasion, I'll still be treated that way and my wife has visited and stayed at our club many times. Some people just forget that I'm married and my wife works. I understand the predictament many of the single males and even females are in but ... you will not get those you are speaking of to change unless you approach them, are friendlier than they are being and prove to them that you're not a bad person. You can't change peoples perspective unless you're willing to meet them 1/2 way. In some cases ... you'll have to meet them further on their terms ... but ... be the bigger person and prove them wrong! Here's a perfect example ... I am embarrassed to admit! We began visiting and became members of our club. We started going often and on several occasions, this guy would come by and say "hi, how are you today?" I thought..."what the hell...this guy keeps coming around each time we are here and just wants to get a close up look at my wife!" I was rude ... raised eyebrow, stern looks and I guess he got the hint and stopped walking by and being ... "friendly." Come to find out ... later, that he is the husband of an extremely nice lady that works the cafe. They are the nicest couple you could ever meet. It took a while but I think we've made amends and he is friendlier towards me but it took him a while and I felt like a complete arse for treating him that way. Time's passed, he acts as though nothing like that ever happened but I know how I treated him and I don't feel good about it and still remember how he must have felt. Needless to say ... I'm less quick to judge someone cuz they are alone. It takes one couple, then another than another and in time attitudes will change but they are not going to change by posting on a message board. Many of those people probably don't know these things exist. They need to be approached and spoken to, to prove that they don't need to suspect and assume the worst of single people. ;) | |
| BRAVO Olivia!!!!! AND, fireprof, I'm NOT unsociable, I'm just not good at idle chit chat and would rather "stick a fork in my eye," as once said by a NHC lady, than listen to opinions of whatever, family stuff, politics, etc. It just don't interest me and I do not offer mine. Given what I've read of your postings you seem an able social mingler, congrats but it isn't me. If had to hangout in the firehouse mingling with and listening to the bro's for days on end I would end up in the loony bin. My idea of conversation is what's going on here, get to the point about things that concern us all. I participate in my local community but only to the degree of being a contributing citizen offering to help with needed issues. Invite me to the potluck social for us volunteers I bring what I committed to and soon disappear when "how's the kids and work etc." babble starts. That's me sir. | |
| So, fireprof, what if we do not want to "drum the conversation" when an uninvited person invades our privacy when not invited to do so? Sitting quietly relaxing is NOT an invitation, it is an intrusion when not respected by others. | |
| Can't resist... I'm an outgoing person and I love meeting new people and chatting them up. On the several occasions when I've visited clubs and resorts myself I haven't had these problems...pool deck or shady tree notwithstanding. First of all, when I go to a new place I like to sit back and observe before I engage, so I'm less likely to just jump into conversation with someone unless they speak to me first. I do, however, at least nod and smile to anyone who acknowledges my presence. If I'm going to approach people after I spend time appraising the "lay of the land" I'll speak to the male half of a "prominent" couple with a question or two. "Hi-I've never been here before but I'm an AANR member and I've been to lots of places. Can you tell me a little bit about (enter question or interest here)" In other words, let the people be your tourguide. FP is right...if you don't make an attempt to engage then you can't expect others to engage you either. Olivia is correct too and I understand her reticence about being randomly approached by guys who mistake her intentions. My thoughts here would be to engage a couple to act as her "tourguides." Tourguides might not be the right term but if you engage people lightly and innocently in this way they'll be more likely to speak for you on the "grapevine." It's just normal social club interaction. Not too much different than visiting a Rotary club and asking to sit at a table for lunch. There's a situation that can make you feel like an outcast or interloper really quickly in spite of the fellowship normally associated with Rotary clubs. It's just normal personal interaction more than anything else and people will treat you more or less exactly the way you treat them. Maybe the best solution would be for the club owners to make sure you're properly introduced to a few people rather than the normal "tour." (here's our pool and there's our clubhouse and make sure you carry a towel at all times.) "Hey Mary and Bob. This is Olivia and she's visiting for the day. She's an ANNR member and she's been lot's of places. Could you make sure she feels really welcome to our place?" I remember that old nudist film from the '60s where the owner introduced the single female visitor to couples and groups around the park. Jmaxn1. Maybe an explanation to the inquisitor might be in order. "Hi - nice to meet you and I appreciate your saying Hi. Really I just came here for the day to get away from things and relax and read my book." That'll hit the grapevine pretty soon too. Just rambling here but i just don't think nudist venues are much different than textile. | |
| Olivia... I typed out a response, thought about it and deleted it. I find it difficult to understand something here in regards to those that want to be left alone, yet visit obvious social nudist venues. I find it hard to understand how nudist individuals want to be accepted but won't get involved enough, even with conversation, to allow others to understand them and their outlook on naturism...except for a message board. I would venture to say that the vast majority of naturists don't frequent naturist websites or message boards and certainly not enough to delve deep into the conversations we have on the vast issues concerning the lifestyle. I find it difficult to understand why some here continue to compare nudism in the US and Europe and can't understand why it's so different here...as if it should be the same. We are two different continents with several different countries and we don't ALL think the same. I will agree to disagree but what I don't agree with is someone/anyone that will come onto a social nudist network, speak of being a loner and not wanting to be social. Is this the closest they want to be social with anyone in naturism? The closest they want to be to other naturists is on the computer? I guess I don't get it ... and I think I speak for many a social nudist when I say ... If you want to be accepted for what you do and who you are ... you can't expect nudists in a social setting to understand this ... if you're not willing to speak up and explain it to them in person and not on a message board. We are just normal people. We don't have magic powers to understand why someone isn't social and many times that is perceived as unfriendly and rude ... but according to some, we need to realize that they just want to be left alone. I'm not sure the vast majority of naturists understand that or can read the minds of those that feel this way. :) | |
| Life is social meeting like it or not, the thing is to respect others without imposing your or my way of life and thinking without invitation. The casual hi, hello is fine then be on your way, no problem. If there is a genuine issue of concern then relate it please and allow me to choose to deal with it or not. The choice to be a nudist or of a political party etc. is common ground for acceptance. I'm not trying to join a subversive group, I just want to get away and veg, away from the worldly things like the multitude of issues folks carry with them and need to relate or act upon. That too is fine just take it to those who wish to interact in that manner. Why is it so necessary to socialize? If I don my motorcyle garb I can walk into a group of bikers and be accepted and don't have to chit chat. Why? The common bond of obviously being a fellow biker. The common bond isn't realized at USA nudist clubs until the prerequisite "gotta get to know yah" ritual is adhered to, to a degree, because after the tour and 4 days of interviews then acceptance, I stroll down to the beach or cafe' and the single suspicions abound. I don't say that is bad and wrong it just isn't being "social" or accepting of an obvious common way of being that all others freely enjoy there. | |
| Jmaxn1... I Agree. Hi - Nice to see you vs. Hey Buddy- didja know you're ass is parked right over the poison ivy? You're gonna need a gallon o' Calamine. By the way... My mother in law had poison ivy all over her ass one time then she sat on the crapper and everyone in the family got it and blah blah blah...I get it now | |
| Thank you skyflydive, such is life as we participate in it, with any luck within our presence on the planet we will accept all humans for who they are, rather than the way they should be with no prejudice. Shall we now chat about asking the Middle East nations to accept our democracratic way of being because we say so? Let's not go there please. Jmax | |
| Jmaxn1, you bring up a good point about how slowly the nudist community is and has been towards accepting singles. I'm fairly new to the AANR Bulletin and wonder if the article written by the single woman (her name escapes me)was a step in the right direction, or simply a bone thrown at the members who are single. I'm hoping for the former while believing it to be more the latter. So I tend to agree with you that it will be quite sometime before any real changes of acceptance of singles will take place at clubs or resorts or whatever you choose to call them these days. Thanks for the interesting post! | |
| AZofnow you and I share the same opinion about the AANR article. My immediate thought was the same, I smirked and said here is a feeble attempt at trying to smooth the waters of upset shared by a mulitude of single AANR members and non members. We are discriminated against and more so if we don't fit what is considered the proper social manner. I do wish the gal luck with the article series but all she or anyone has to do is look around NCH and see the frustration being voiced. Maybe, MAYBE, she will make a dent in the club mentality, we shall see. Fireprof,I am not "single", I too am happily married attending nudist functions by myself with my wife's OK. As a former nudist she too is frustrated and preplexed by the single outsider issues I am subjected to. In her profession she too deals with a lot of people daily and we both have the same opinion about social chit chat from non family or very close friends. We are not anti-social, if you have something to say, say it. We do our own personal version of pointed chit chat then back to the movie, hobbies or work issues etc. It's who we are. We belong to 2 large fishing clubs with 1000's of members many of whom we interact with and they too practice their own form of discrimination. When certain groups get together we get the outsider looks while attending and when the chit chat starts we are gone, back to the RV for relief. It's the same all over but there we are accepted and allowed to be who we are and are respected as fellow members with a common bond, enjoyment of the beaches, fishing and relaxing by ourselves but, outside the camper we are dressed and don't encounter that additional can of worms. | |
| Sorry...I give up! What I'm reading is complaints about nudist people trying to be friendly and those that just want to be left alone. There's a place for that ... it's called home! This will be my final post on this subject. Thanks! :) | |
| Bye, fireprof here's wishing you the best with your personal opinions. What you fail to see is there are fellow nudists here expressing who they are, as well as yourself, and wish to be allowed to be that, and allowed you the same courtesy. No one here has asked you to change your way of being. | |
| WOW...talk about intense reading. I hope everyone involved in this thread will take a few moments while standing in your corners, Holding your hands above your heads and breath in, breath out, breath in , breath out. Now meet in the middle of the ring and lets all shake hands. Everyone made some good points, and we are suppose to be offering ideas, whether they are good, bad or indifferent. None of us are certified, bonified shrinks by no means. WE all have our niches, comfort zones and other quirks that allow us to be comfortable talking whether it's on line or in a live setting such as a club or resort. There are times some people may get over zealous and try to indoctrinate others to their own ways of thinking. I can see it from all angles, and I do not know what way is the best way. I am going thru all of this backwards. I had been married 30 years, raised a family( 4 kids and grandkids) in this lifestyle, and all of a sudden I am now a single. Fortunately on my end my home club has not changed their attitude to me , going from married to single. I sit on the board for my homeclub, I currently am on a chair position for youths for the Sw Region, and over all well respected to my knowledge. It is very difficult to hear of some bad experiences that some have had, but at the same time I feel I have a beter grasp of where I will spend my money and where I will not spend my money. I will say alot of these so called interviews by other members are either authorized or not authorized, but I have never seen any to have such quirkey behaviors, but I can certainly believe it just from what I have seen in other clubs. Iwent to the home club last weekend for a meeting at 10am...at 9pm after 5 other different meetings from personal, to membership, to convention committee, to grounds and facilities, to an emergency Board meeting, I had a nice day in the sun to get rid of the pasty complexion...NOT!!! I stayed indoors in meetings all days, but that is who I am. I like being involved to make the club fun for our members and our guests and to encourage their return. I've seen certain "clicks" scope out newbies, ive seen single resident members seek out new guests and then I hear a lot of stories behind those "clicks", but nothing to validate the actions being right or wrong, just sociable. How people send out signals, to each their own. We need to respect that. I will say this , nudism is alot like religions, there is no one right nudist doctrine...where as we have Catholics, Baptists, Nazerenes, Church of Christ just to name a few, there usually is something out there that will suit the needs of a particular individual. I seen a few sparks flying, and I will say this, If I see a thread getting carried away where as people are wanting to rant just to keep stoking the fires ( Hence I am a retired Firefighter) I will with or with out warning delete the thread as opposed to having a poking session at one another take place. Whether we like it or not, we have to agree to disagree at times. I am all about clubs and resorts, not beaches. Have I been to a beach, not yet, Will I go to a Beach? I hope so. Will I fight for a beach? Not yet, I don't know enough about them. I am a individual, but I will research anything to the best of my ability. Let's remain friends, settle the temperments and above all, respect each ones opinions, because one thing is for sure, not all clubs are equal ! |
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