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Absolute Naturists Nudism vs Exhibitionism
| Let me see if I can formulate the question you are asking to AN group members: What are your thoughts on Social Nudity (Nudism) vs "Shock Nudity (exhibitionism)"? I believe that is what you are asking and a very good question. Thankyou for posting it. (If I am wrong please correct me. As moderator I try to make it easy for people to understand and answer the topic question.SB) | |
| Dawn, I agree with you 100 percent. Streekers across the football game or stage are exhibiting their fear of being naked therefore trying to shock the the audience or crowd in the stadium with a sense of accomplishment. Not any different from being at a pool party, and he or she ends up jumping into the water naked, hoping every one else will join them. this exhibition is uncalled for. I too prefer to be naked in front of other nudist, and freedom of my own home. So Yes, there is a great difference. | |
| I put nudism, streaking, and exhibitionism in THREE separate cattegories. Exhibitionism is done for sexual gratification, while streaking is done for the purpose of having a laugh, a practical joke. I certainly wouldn't be an exhibitionist, and wouldn't encourage anyone else to do so either. But for streaking, I wouldn't do that myself, but neither would I criticize someone who streaked at a sporting event or other "traditional" streaking events. There is also a fourth cattegory... I don't know if there is a specific name for it, but nudity as a means of protest or demonstration like the World Naked Bike Ride I find acceptable, and even beneficial, and would probably participate if I ever got the chance. The reason this is not streaking or exhibitionism (nor is it nudism either) is because the nudity at something like WNBR is publicly made known in advance, plus it is a matter of protected freedom of speech. | |
| There is actually about three topics in Dawn's post! "Social vs shock nudity", "Clothed/Nude interaction" and "Nude vs C/O Resorts"! I think many of us agree on Exhibitionism or "shock" nudity. But we all have different views and preferences on a fully nude environment vs a clothing-tolerant environment; or pushing the envelope a far as being nude in front of textiles. But I'm with you; I prefer to be nude in a semi-natural environment where everyone is nude as well. Or what I call KISN (Keep It Simply Nude). | |
| Total agreement on the "shock nudity" of exhibitionism. That is, as someone else pointed out, for gratification more than anything else. And streaking is a 'call for attention' bordering on the exhibitionist side. Neither one promotes or benefits social nudity. Deliberately disrobing at a public (non-nude) event is, in most cases, the prime focus of many of the laws regarding nudity, in that the act is considered "reckless". Being clothed at a nude venue, would be similar, I think. That is where one expects to find and interact with other nudists at one's own comfort level. So it boils down to being appropriate in given situations. Excellent questions, Dawn!!! | |
| I agree with what has been said here. I am a nudist but not an exhibitionist and I am not comfortable being nude around clothed people. However with that said I have decided that next time The Jehovia Witnesses come to my door I may answer the door nude. | |
| I've had the JW women come to my door twice since in the last few months. Since I'm always nude at home and sometimes on the computer, I can see them come to the front door. I will either not answer the door or ... like the last two times, I will go to the door and say ... "I'm not wearing clothes, do you still want to talk to me?" They leave ... quickly. If ... I were to open the door and greet them without telling them, I might consider that exhibitionism only because ... even though this is my castle and I'm the King of my castle and I decide what I want to wear and not wear within my castle, I don't think I should "force" my nudity on some unsuspecting textile just to make a point that I'm a nudist and this is how I live. Obviously if I lived in a nudist community, these people would not even visit but if they are in, what is assumed to be, a textile community, then they should not be subjected to "shock" nudity to make a point. I make my point by stating ... "I'm not wearing clothes, do you still want to talk to me?" Or ... just don't answer the door! I can be comfortable in front of non nudists and be naked ... but usually am not because they are uncomfortable, I'm not. This has been a issue where we've had family and close friends over for a pool party and BBQ. Our kids and grandkids and all their friends know we are nudists. When those people leave that might be completely uncomfortable with nudity, it is often announced that getting "comfortable" is now allowed. Most times ... no one takes advantage. When that happens, I sense some are a bit uncomfortable and I'll remain dressed. But ... on occasion, friends and family start out with topless swimming and if they go to that level, I'll get naked and my grandson follows suit within seconds ... the rest follow in a short time, but this is not the norm, even though it is not only allowed here but encouraged. :) | |
| Wearing clothes in public really has more to do with cleanliness and long time custom from christian teachings. Set aside christian custom I would not want to go into a public place outside of a nudist environment where people were just allowed to be nude. I would not want to have just any car load of young horny dudes parading through the fast food drive through where my grand daughter works the window. I do not deliberately attempt to be in view of non nude public when naked. As our society in now trained and fixed on relying on textile that is not about to change too quickly. What needs to change is the level of respect for nudists in their spaces. I want to be nude in my home and about of my private acreage which as this free country permits I worked hard to acquire so I can have a place to live nude. On occasion someone will come to the door or drive into my acreage and for the most there is no immediate controversy, but public attitudes prevail and the community ostricization. Always during a summer we have the local country bumpkins typically with a pickup truck making pointless passes and u turns in our yard while they guak about - with a perfectly good place to turn a vehicle anywhere on the passing public road. All most of they ever get about nudity is on the top shelf of the magazine stands and on the internet. A questionable case of exhibitionism by innocent nudists coming under police investigation may be whats needed to get the public's attention for educational purposes. Until then I am hoping my security cameras will pick up some distinguishable images and maybe even license numbers :-) Most people like myself struggle to afford our own facilities to go nude and many don't have the spaces at all. Getting to free beaches and the budget clubs and resorts is unaffordable for most nudists. Whey should nudists be forced to conform to the textile public, and labeled exhibitionists ? | |
| I agree with most of what has been written before. No, I would not be comfortable appearing nude in a place where it would be inappropriate/unexpected. Yes, I would participate in events like the WNB or BaretoBreakers since both events are scheduled and permitted in advance meaning that anyone observing has to expect to see what they see. I do, however, fully support clothing optional. My wife would never have accompanied me to a resort if it had been all nude all the time. As far as my own comfort goes, I have learned that all I require is that nudity be permitted. As long as that requirement is meant I am quite comfortable being nude around others whether they are clothed or unclothed. It was not until I learned that, BTW, that I realized I was really a nudist. | |
| Nudism and exhibitionism are definitely not the same. Someone, even if the individual is a naturist/nudist, that is nude in a non-nudist/naturist environment is most certainly going to offend someone and could be/get slapped with the "sexual offender" label by the legal system if arrested or ticketed. Also, an exhibitionist doesn't even have to be fully nude, such as flashers. A basic principle of nudism is nudity in appropriate settings without infringing on the rights of others. If there are laws that allow public nudity (not just for events such as World Nude Bike Ride), would/could being nude in a non-nudist/naturist environment still be considered infringing on the rights of others? If a nudist/naturist individual(s) are within his/her/their/our legal right to be nude in a non-nudist/naturist public place, but are in the minority of the number of people present, do you think the majority of non-nudist/naturist would still view us as nudist/naturists exercising our legal right or simply as exhibitionists? I'm probably getting off the topic with the question. But like everyone else here, I'm definitely going to be comfortable within an environment that's specifically designed/created to serve/support nudism/naturism. Being nude in a non-nudist/naturist environment is like being a fish out of water. | |
| Something has be said for being nude taking all necessary precautions if one is seen and someone becomes offended. Ex - locate and establish that a location on a public beach is not used and may even be traditionally used for nude beach goers. While relaxing on the beach a boater comes into where they can view the people on the beach. The boater complains by way of his cell phone. Another is when guests, mostly suddenly rudely wander into the private areas of my acreage. In both instances I was taking precautions to protect my privacy to the best of my ability but yet came very near to being charged by someone who claimed to be offended. We can't be nude in places where everyone else can enjoy freedom of movement, we are labeled perverted exhibitionists? Though I don't deliberately walk in public view I still remain comfortable nude in the spaces I choose to be nude. I happen to be restricted by budget like most nudists and can not travel to pricy destinations. | |
| hahahahaha ... I love your Dad's attitude Dawn! He may have been answering in a "smart ass" kinda way but he was right. Just because we are naked, doesn't make us indecent. I'm glad he said what he did and maybe that neighbor went home, afterwards, and thought about the context of what was said. ;) | |
It’s a paraphrase of Richard Dreyfuss’ line from The Goodbye Girl. Kudos to Dawn’s father for his obscure yet appropriate movie reference. Marsha Mason and Quinn Cummings also star.
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| Yes Dawn, I could not agree more with FP and AB, Your Dad said it right, good for him. It woul be nice if we had more "smart asses" like him. To me there is a big difference between social nudity and exhibition and decency. I know a lot of very decent human beings who are nudists. There is nothing wrong with social nudity so why not correct those who do not understand that. Streaking was never about social nudity so I am glad to hear you never fell victim to the double dog dare to do it. That is what many non-nudists think it is about because they never have experienced social nudity. I would double dog dare them to go to a nudist venue with me. In the same light, I find it equally wrong to use social nudity for perceived social causes that have no direct relationship to social nudity. Bay to Breakers is not included in that but the bike rides are in my opinion. Thanks again for an interesting question. I don't feel as strong about making sure I don't answer the door nude because it is how I basically live. Even outside of my nude living environment, people know I am a nudist and I am very comfortable being nude with anyone whether they are nude or not.It is not a big deal to me so why focus on it, just act and be as you would normlly do. It is what they are doing. | |
| I tend to avoid answering the door in the nude since it is not uncommon to open it and find a boy/girl scout or elementary school child doing some sort of fundraiser. :-) | |
| Never does the nudist world good to be in your face. | |
| AH, ah, I was sure there was a thread on this. We had an interesting exchange with my wife this afternoon. I am nude almost exclusively at home and spend week-end without thinking about clothing. My wife is not a nudist though, however, she sometimes swims naked in our swimming pool, goes to nude beach with me once in a while and very often get tanned topless. This afternoon, I was naked as always and she was about to lay in the sun with her bathing suit. I just asked here why she was keeping her bathing suit? She replied she did not feel the need of exhibitionism I had. To which I replied, I was not an exhibitionist but a nudist, and moreover a social nudist. She knows me and her comment though rang my bell, because that's how most non-nudists feel about nudism. They don't see us as nudists but as exhibitionists. So the question is how to change this? Some comments above are starting to answer the question, but I am really intrigued in how rally more people to nudist activities, starting with my wife. | |
| By being real and honest examples as you are doing. By not hiding behind all those lame excuses or hiding in the closets. By having the courage and coviction to live our lives as we deem apropriate, by our standards and not others or the "Church". By not being exhibitionist and making our desire to live positive and natural a reality and not a once in a while joke. That's what I think anyway... | |
| I think your point is well made, SunBunny. Jim | |
| " They don't see us as nudists but as exhibitionists. So the question is how to change this? Some comments above are starting to answer the question, but I am really intrigued in how rally more people to nudist activities, starting with my wife." I would explain that exhibitionists want to be seen. The point of being an exhibitionist is to get a charge out of being seen by others. A nudist/naturist enjoys BEING naked/nude regardless of whether others are around. And being people, we usually like to have other people around to talk to and interact with. I always stress that I enjoy the feeling of the sun, the breeze, the water, the comfort. A full-time shower/bath is the best thing I can think of textiles could identify with. | |
| Hello all, I was reading your posts and had some questions... Has anyone here seen a tv show on the Discovery Channel called, "Naked Castaway"? Would that show be labeled Nudism or Exhibitionism? | |
| Does the show,"Naked Castaway" help or hurt the public perception of Nudists? As a naturist I have mixed feelings about the show. | |
| Not ignoring you, Ron, just never seen it. The wife and I don't really watch much TV. | |
| Regarding the show “Naked Castaway”, I saw the first episode and feel it is neither about nudism nor exhibitionism. The title of the show is to get people to watch. The premise is about someone being left naked on a deserted island and trying to survive on only what he can find there. As far as nudism vs. exhibitionism I consider myself a nudist but I know there are some here that feel I am also an exhibitionist because I ride in the Los Angeles World Naked Bike Ride. It is true that the purpose of the ride is to bring attention to several environmental issues, but it is also to promote a positive image of the human body. As others have also posted, I feel that an exhibitionist does it more for gratification and the shock value rather than a desire to promote a positive view of nudity. | |
| I get into some "warm" discussions regarding one aspect of "my" nudist life that others seem to also enjoy, with some that think my driving nude is also exhibitionism. I have no intention of being seen by others while I'm driving naked. I drive a high profile truck, my windows, on the truck, are tinted dark ... as dark as I can get without it being "limo" dark and get a ticket. I have a pair of shorts or towel nearby to cover if I even "think" there's a possibility of being seen. I've tested all these things with my wife in an adjacent vehicle and she can't even tell if I have a shirt on our not. All of this and still ... some nudists insist I'm being an exhibitionist. I've eluded to the fact that I go out to my truck and mail box very late at night or very early in the morning in the least amount of clothing I can but still ensure that if someone is out driving around ... I have the ability to cover ... still some think I'm an exhibitionist. I've found the some of these people have the idea that the ONLY place you should be nude is inside your home or at a resort or club that allows you to be nude. They like to follow the rule of "appropriate" settings and there is no other place you should be nude. I have a pretty private backyard. I have neighbors that have stated that "I should be able to do what I want in my backyard and if neighbors don't like what they see ... they should stop looking into your backyard." But ... if I'm seen by the neighbor from their 2nd story window ... am "I" the exhibitionist or simply living my nudist life and not bothering anyone, nor am I flaunting my nudity. Being outside in our yard, driving naked; be it my truck, our other cars or our motorhome, being naked in our hotel rooms, anywhere we can while on vacation or a weekend getaway ... it's all about an extension of our nudist lives and too many times, some of these things we do, get lumped into an area that they shouldn't be, in my opinion. But ... your opinion may vary and who's to say ... which opinion is right? :D | |
| One can't be labeled an exhibitionist when one's nudity is solely for his/her own and spouse's/significant other's eyes. Despite your being nude in public while driving, you're not trying to be seen on purpose, which makes being an exhibitionist a moot point. However, to use a Jay-Z reference, "streets is watching". There's just too many unseen cameras today. Your neighbors could be recording you from the darkened windows of their residences while you're nude on your own property. Thus, being the nude (exposed) fish out of water who's image is unknowingly captured on a recorded video medium could possibly get one labeled as an "exhibitionist". However, if the law hasn't been knocking at your door regarding complaints of your being seen nude, then you must be doing something right. | |
| Exactly! With regards to cameras ... both neighbors across the street in two story homes have already seen me and just wave and smile. Our next door neighbors are new ... well, they've been in the house for over a year. There's NO WAY they haven't seen me naked. I'm so certain because at one point they closed the shutters on the one window overlooking our yard. The other window is where their shower is so ... I know they close that in the evenings when showering. I've done almost everything short of erecting a 16' block wall to block their view. The yard is heavily landscaped on that end but I have two trees that keep dying and that's where my "total" privacy issues are. I put up umbrellas and shades but I will not crawl or creep to the trash cans or while I'm walking from the inside to the outside of the house. I continue to get in and outta our pool and hot tub, float on a air mattress in the pool. I think I'm entitled to privacy just as they are. I'm not lounging with the intent for them to get a good look at me. I'm just living as I normally do. I think that's the reason we haven't had the cops here because I'm not being an exhibitionist and they either respect that or have accepted that and decided I'm really not harming anyone. They've had family stay with them and when they do ... they close those shutters. So I know they've seen me/us. I've witness more "exhibitionism" from textiles more than I have from nudists. Flashing comes to mind with exhibitionists and that's usually a textile situation. I find it strange that nudism and exhibitionism be thought of as the same or related when ... exhibitionism usually deals with someone clothed or covered and exposes their hidden naked self or parts of their body for a reaction. While nudists don't want to wear clothes in the first place so ... is it really "exposing" their hidden parts when they are naked? It's late and I'm babbling ... I should stop and go to bed! hahahaha :D | |
| FireProf, I too feel you're within your rights to go nude within the confines of your own backyard and yes, if the neighbors don't want to see you naked they should not look into your backyard. I too have walked to/from the mailbox and to put trash on the curb minimally dressed, letting my robe hang open but always rady to quickly cover up if I sensed others were present or should certainly turn onto my street. I also have enjoyed driving while nude and never did so with the intent of being seen. And, like you, if I ever thought it was possible I might be seen by someone while sitting at a traffic light, for example, would strategically cover myself until in motion again. I too elieve exhibitionism is more a textile practice, flashing unsuspecting souls for the shock value or, perhaps, sexual gratification and would likely, among men, occur while they are sporting an erection. Jim | |
| Well Jim ... it's too bad we're not running the police dept, sheriff's dept and the DA's office! hahaha :D | |
| Jim I don't mean to bag on you but I am still having difficulty separating the practice of leaving "your robe hanging open" when you go to the mailbox and exhibitionism or maybe even flashing. That would be like me going to the grocery store with see-thru clothing. Feels like exhibitionism to me and I think the reaction by a passerby would see it exactly as that. This would in turn would not be a good example of social nudity. | |
| SB ... maybe I can shed a little light on this subject, because I've done the same thing and after I explain ... you tell me if you still feel it's a type of exhibitionism or out and out exhibitionism. ;) We live in a tract of homes. Our mailboxes are no longer right in front of our homes and are now "gang mailboxes" in a central location. Ours happens to be about 5 houses down the street. If I could get away with it ... I'd walk down there in a heartbeat and get our mail naked ... everyday. I can't. There have been times when I've gotten up at dark 30 in the morning cuz I can't sleep. I'm talking 2:30am, 3:30 am, 4am and haven't gotten the mail from the day before. I could wait til I get dressed in shorts, t shirt, sweatpants, sweatshirt ... whatever the weather dictates. But since we are naked inside or home about 98%+ of the time ... I will sometimes grab a robe and head out to get the mail during these very early hours of the morning. Is it "possible" that someone would see me? Sure, that's why I have the robe on. Has this happened in the last 5 years since we've lived here, yes ... twice. The newspaper guy both times. What did I do? Saw him coming in plenty of time to close the robe. Opening the robe only gives me the feeling of being naked, without being completely naked and exposed ... in the case that "someone" drives by at those times, comes out of their house at that time. To me, the exhibitionist side would be if I kept the robe open while I was walking back and forth to the mailbox with a higher percentage of chance I'd be seen and ... not closing the robe or partially closing the robe. I've can only equate this action to my nude driving. It's an extension of my nude life. If I was an exhibitionist ... I'd drive my classic car naked. But it sits low to the ground and does not have tinted windows and ... it's an attention getter. NO one cares about my truck but many people drive up to the Chevelle and pace me, give me a thumbs up. Those are times when I'd be seen and that's why I do not drive my classic car nude. So I take all these precautions, even going to the mailbox with a robe on but will leave it open to feel the cool air, warm air on my body as I walk ... without anyone else out or around and IF they are ... I can close it! :) | |
| Thanks FireProf. And, to you, Sunbunny, I suppose there perhaps is an exhibitionist element to what I've done but as explained by FireProf it gives a sense of being nude but does allow for a quick coverup if required. At any rate it hasn't happened in quite a long time now since my wife hid or threw away the robe so I can no longer wear it to/from the mailbox or anywhere else. And, I have no see-through clothing so now when I go out of the house I'm covered in opaque shorts at a minimum since I usually do go out shirtless to check mail, etc. Jim | |
| Exhibitionism is NOT nudism. Nudism has nothing to do with seeing or being seen as many have posted. I went to the front of our property wearing just the shorts and sneakers I had on from doing some yard work and was too sticky/warm to put on anything. Had I come from the house, I would have picked up one of my opaque pareos. I didn't go for the mail, I went to bring back our trash container after the truck went by...so it was only for a few seconds I was visible if any passenger in a car went by. We have tall red tips on that side of the house. | |
| This is true ... "exhibitionism" is not nudism ... but where is the line? Who makes those rules? Nudism is changing from what it was in the 50's, 60's 70's ... each decade has seen changes that the previous decade nudists didn't like or agree with. We have young nudists now that don't agree with what the majority of veteran nudist think nudism should be and that's keeping them away. Maybe some of the things they think are harmless acts of fun ... are "exhibitionism" to the veteran nudist. Is ANY form of nudity in public, where the public "might" see you, a form of exhibitionism? If so, who made up that rule? Is the Bare To Breakers exhibitionism? Is the WNBR exhibitionism? Who said it is? We can use all the dictionaries to find the definition of exhibitionism and we'll still have nudists and textiles that don't agree on it and have their own spin on what the definition means and what they think people are thinking when they do some things ... they don't agree with. Being naked in public to get a reaction from clothed society is not always exhibitionism ... just like the B to Breakers or WNBR ... or knowing your surroundings and knowing when you can push the envelop and extend your nudity to public areas WITHOUT being seen or have taken precautions NOT be be seen ... naked. Going out to the road to fetch your trash cans, mail, the newspaper ... and doing it topless ... or naked ... is NOT exhibitionism IF you don't intend for anyone to see you or your not doing it to be lewd or shock people with it. But then again ... that's only MY interpretation of the definition! LOL :D | |
| To my way of thinking, exhibitionism definitely has a sexual element to it. Streaking could be considered exhibition due to the shock value. However, I think there's an inordinately HUGE difference between those and nudism...the love of the feel of nature with nothing standing between you and the elements. No need for grasping for attention or some sense of perverted sexual gratification...just simply being at one with the elements and appreciating the fleshy vehicle the gods saw fit to let us borrow. As long as you're in the company of those who don't mind, anything goes, I guess. But for me, I don't appreciate exhibitionism in any form...I find it disrespectful to those who aren't exhibitionists. Of course, displaying that disrespect is what allows exhibitionists to "enjoy" their exhibition...without shock value, there wouldn't be a reason for them to do it in the first place. Stay naked and Blessed Be all! |
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